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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2016 13:48:42 GMT -5
While Medellin has never been Disney Land, in my humble opinion safety is quickly deteriorating. I know LIM will want to post his crime stats, but I don't have much faith in those statistics. Every week it seems we(me/wife/family) witness something or know someone who has been robbed at gunpoint. It should be noted these are not people who are using/selling drugs and or prostitutes, nor are they out drunk , flashing cash or valuables, giving papaya ,ETC ETC/-these are normal and astute people trying to go about their regular lives. The city needs to get on the ball or things will deteriorate quickly, in my opinion.
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Post by dandl93 on Jun 20, 2016 13:58:36 GMT -5
This is happening all over Colombia even in the smaller towns security is going backwards.Santos and his liberal social policies have went in the wrong direction.The mayors of Bogota and MDE has made it where the citizens hands are tied and the criminals are running amuck.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2016 14:05:43 GMT -5
This is happening all over Colombia even in the smaller towns security is going backwards.Santos and his liberal social policies have went in the wrong direction.The mayors of Bogota and MDE has made it where the citizens hands are tied and the criminals are running amuck. I agree, I think every Colombia Visa holder should be issued a gun with their Cedula.
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Post by livinginmedellin on Jun 20, 2016 15:11:31 GMT -5
This is happening all over Colombia even in the smaller towns security is going backwards.Santos and his liberal social policies have went in the wrong direction.The mayors of Bogota and MDE has made it where the citizens hands are tied and the criminals are running amuck. I agree, I think every Colombia Visa holder should be issued a gun with their Cedula. Issuing a gun won't help - reportedly you can't legally carry one in Medellín. Only can legally have one at home. So on the streets where most of the crime happens only the criminals and police will have guns.
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Post by livinginmedellin on Jun 20, 2016 15:23:45 GMT -5
While Medellin has never been Disney Land, in my humble opinion safety is quickly deteriorating. I know LIM will want to post his crime stats, but I don't have much faith in those statistics. Every week it seems we(me/wife/family) witness something or know someone who has been robbed at gunpoint. It should be noted these are not people who are using/selling drugs and or prostitutes, nor are they out drunk , flashing cash or valuables, giving papaya ,ETC ETC/-these are normal and astute people trying to go about their regular lives. The city needs to get on the ball or things will deteriorate quickly, in my opinion. They aren't my crime stats - they are the official city crime stats and I provided a link to the news story that had these stats with maps, see: colombiaconnection.freeforums.net/thread/1455/robberies-drop-medell-13-poblado. Keep in mind those are only reported crimes. Many crimes like cell-phone thefts go unreported. Where do you, your wife and family hang out? You must really hang out is risky areas of Medellín if "every week it seems we(me/wife/family) witness something or know someone who has been robbed at gunpoint.". I haven't seen anyone robbed at gunpoint in 10+ years of traveling to Colombia and living in Medellín for six years. I just asked my Colombian wife and in her entire life she can only recall once an aunt five years ago was robbed at gunpoint. Her aunt lives in an estrato 3 area. She can't think of any other examples of friends or family in Colombia witnessing someone or knowing someone robbed at gunpoint.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2016 15:27:23 GMT -5
I agree, I think every Colombia Visa holder should be issued a gun with their Cedula. Issuing a gun won't help - reportedly you can't legally carry one in Medellín. Only can legally have one at home. So on the streets where most of the crime happens only the criminals and police will have guns. Yes and that is a shame,especially since most of the police here are 16 year olds with pimples. An alternative weapon can be your car,just saw on news a robbery at calle 10 and las Vegas where the guy rammed the moto with car.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2016 15:31:56 GMT -5
Issuing a gun won't help - reportedly you can't legally carry one in Medellín. Only can legally have one at home. So on the streets where most of the crime happens only the criminals and police will have guns. Yes and that is a shame,especially since most of the police here are 16 year olds with pimples. An alternative weapon can be your car,just saw on news a robbery at calle 10 and las Vegas where the guy rammed the moto with car. We "hang out" Envigado,Poblado and Sabaneta. Mostly estate 5 and 6. Mostly day time. You must be asleep or lucky. I have lived here 9 years and have not been robbed-I know I am lucky.
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Post by dandl93 on Jun 20, 2016 16:06:05 GMT -5
This is happening all over Colombia even in the smaller towns security is going backwards.Santos and his liberal social policies have went in the wrong direction.The mayors of Bogota and MDE has made it where the citizens hands are tied and the criminals are running amuck. I agree, I think every Colombia Visa holder should be issued a gun with their Cedula. I was, I thought every one was. jajajajajajjaa
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Post by dandl93 on Jun 20, 2016 16:10:27 GMT -5
I agree, I think every Colombia Visa holder should be issued a gun with their Cedula. Issuing a gun won't help - reportedly you can't legally carry one in Medellín. Only can legally have one at home. So on the streets where most of the crime happens only the criminals and police will have guns. This is the problem the corrupt cops and the criminals have guns but the law abiding citizens are left to be run over.I do notice every politician has arm guards.
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Post by livinginmedellin on Jun 20, 2016 16:52:42 GMT -5
Yes and that is a shame,especially since most of the police here are 16 year olds with pimples. An alternative weapon can be your car,just saw on news a robbery at calle 10 and las Vegas where the guy rammed the moto with car. We "hang out" Envigado,Poblado and Sabaneta. Mostly estate 5 and 6. Mostly day time. You must be asleep or lucky. I have lived here 9 years and have not been robbed-I know I am lucky. FYI, most of Sabaneta is estrato 3 or 2 (86%). 13% of homes in Sabaneta are estrato 4, 55% are estrato 3 and 31% are estrato 2. Very few, only 0.7% of homes in Sabaneta are estrato 5 or 6. But I would say estrato 3 in Sabaneta is equivalent to estrato 4 and estrato 4 is equivalent to estrato 5 in Medellín. The crime rates in Sabaneta for the most part are lower than most parts of Medellín.
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Post by dandl93 on Jun 20, 2016 17:08:13 GMT -5
LIM you know as well as most, estratos do not mean much except estrato 1 and 2 areas.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2016 17:21:30 GMT -5
I don't have much faith in the government crime stats either.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2016 17:37:31 GMT -5
LIM you know as well as most, estratos do not mean much except estrato 1 and 2 areas. [b LIM, yes am aware of the estratos in Sabaneta as well as Envigado. My wife does not like Sabaneta but occasionally she let's us slum it.
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Post by colombiana on Jun 20, 2016 17:38:53 GMT -5
LIM you know as well as most, estratos do not mean much except estrato 1 and 2 areas. Yes, except for the utility rates you pay and property prices to buy or rent. But in my experience there is normally a fairly noticeable difference between estrato 6 and estrato 3. I would say 5/6 are similar - estrato 3/4 are similar to each other and 1/2 are similar to each other. 1/2 areas are definitely poor areas where an expat shouldn't live. Also Envigado has a wide range of estratos - 60% of homes are in estrato 1-3.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2016 17:42:12 GMT -5
LIM you know as well as most, estratos do not mean much except estrato 1 and 2 areas. Yes, except for the utility rates you pay and property prices to buy or rent. But in my experience there is normally a fairly noticeable difference between estrato 6 and estrato 3. I would say 5/6 are similar - estrato 3/4 are similar to each other and 1/2 are similar to each other. 1/2 areas are definitely poor areas where an expat shouldn't live. You can run around all day in a 6 neighborhood and pretend your safe, but that might be a very dangerous fantasy.
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Post by dandl93 on Jun 20, 2016 17:56:45 GMT -5
Many cities in Colombia have not changed but a few areas estratos in 50 years.You can find million $ homes in 3,4,5 and 6.Smaller towns like I live in goes to 4 max. Our last mayor (Thank God he is gone) was trying to raise the property in my area to a 6 when we all stood up to him he backed down.He did make a comment if it was possible he would raise mine to a 7 or 8, must of been because I backed his opponant.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2016 18:05:15 GMT -5
Many cities in Colombia have not changed but a few areas estratos in 50 years.You can find million $ homes in 3,4,5 and 6.Smaller towns like I live in goes to 4 max. Our last mayor (Thank God he is gone) was trying to raise the property in my area to a 6 when we all stood up to him he backed down.He did make a comment if it was possible he would raise mine to a 7 or 8, must of been because I backed his opponant. My wife has some family in Bogota and they live in estratos 4, every building around them is estratos 6.
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Post by jabberwocky on Jun 20, 2016 21:00:18 GMT -5
I have lived in both Sabaneta and Envigado, no problems , our apartment is in Envigado now, filled with family not us- we are in Orlando, my wife and the extended family would say things are a bit more dangerous than 5 years ago, they feel Santos is to weak on crime ( and the FARC$and that filters down. I am not aware of any close family that has had problems, it's just a general sentiment. One thing they all agree on., you don't want be be know as someone who had access to cash , there has been a murder and a robbery of acquaintances , they both were the business manager of a group of fincas, the bad guys knew they handled payroll and were targeted. How does this effect the typical gringo on Medellin, not much other than to live a low key lifestyle , and keep your personal business quiet. There seems to be a prevailing attitude amongst ex-pats that Medellin is getting more dangerous, it could be and the statistics just have not caught up. I still think driving is the most dangerous thing an ex pat can do however , or riding my moto, but as I tell the wife , the life insurance doubles if it's an accident, getting shot by a bad guy she gets half as much.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2016 21:13:14 GMT -5
FYI, most of Sabaneta is estrato 3 or 2 (86%). 13% of homes in Sabaneta are estrato 4, 55% are estrato 3 and 31% are estrato 2. Very few, only 0.7% of homes in Sabaneta are estrato 5 or 6. But I would say estrato 3 in Sabaneta is equivalent to estrato 4 and estrato 4 is equivalent to estrato 5 in Medellín. The crime rates in Sabaneta for the most part are lower than most parts of Medellín. A combo maintains the law and order in this municipality. The combo uses Parque Erato in CC Aves Maria as an "oficina" to sell drugs, but are pretty much left alone because they provide "protection." Two years ago, I walked into the tail end of an armed robbery by two guys on a moto at the parrilla next to the Centro Comercial. The fleteros made off with the wallets and purses of all who were dining on the terrace. I never saw this incident appear in the news.
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Post by livinginmedellin on Jun 20, 2016 21:54:55 GMT -5
How does this effect the typical gringo on Medellin, not much other than to live a low key lifestyle , and keep your personal business quiet. There seems to be a prevailing attitude amongst ex-pats that Medellin is getting more dangerous, it could be and the statistics just have not caught up. I still think driving is the most dangerous thing an ex pat can do however , or riding my moto, but as I tell the wife , the life insurance doubles if it's an accident, getting shot by a bad guy she gets half as much. I agree. Keep a low profile with a low key lifestyle with your personal business to yourself and you will avoid most problems. Many of the expat homicides and many of the other expat deaths that I am aware of trace back to suspected drugs, resisting a robbery or suspected involvement with prepagos, sex tourism, sketchy woman and the likes. I know many expats living a low key lifestyle like I do haven't had any problems. Most of the apartments in the Medellín area I have lived in have 24x7 porterias and I have added security doors in two of them so no worries while I am at home or away on vacation.
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Post by suba on Jun 20, 2016 22:22:24 GMT -5
I made a similar comment a few days back, something along the lines of "Medellin is going down the toilet" this after three foreigners were shot dead in less than a month. I was quickly put right by the Colombian posters, apparently it isn't Medellin that has a problem, it's the fact that foreigners wear shorts.
So now the rest of you know.
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Post by dandl93 on Jun 20, 2016 22:59:38 GMT -5
We "hang out" Envigado,Poblado and Sabaneta. Mostly estate 5 and 6. Mostly day time. You must be asleep or lucky. I have lived here 9 years and have not been robbed-I know I am lucky. FYI, most of Sabaneta is estrato 3 or 2 (86%). 13% of homes in Sabaneta are estrato 4, 55% are estrato 3 and 31% are estrato 2. Very few, only 0.7% of homes in Sabaneta are estrato 5 or 6. But I would say estrato 3 in Sabaneta is equivalent to estrato 4 and estrato 4 is equivalent to estrato 5 in Medellín. The crime rates in Sabaneta for the most part are lower than most parts of Medellín. The wolves love sheep that keep preaching resist.The more the sheep resist the more the wolves attack.Their is alot more sheep in the world then wolves but the wolves have the sheep on their knees Why is that?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2016 0:15:07 GMT -5
The wolves love sheep that keep preaching resist.The more the sheep resist the more the wolves attack.Their is alot more sheep in the world then wolves but the wolves have the sheep on their knees Why is that? Errr maybe because the sheeps are vegetarian and not predators to the wolves? While wolves are on top of the food chain, like most of the big carnivore animals. Human beings are not sheeps or volwes, because they can think (well most of them), and therefore have values, principles, and opinions. The vast majority of us value life and peace, because it is part of our deeper inner needs, while a tiny minority put these values aside and are ready to kill for material things. All the human societies built policial and judicial systems to limit the harm done by these lost souls, because it has been understood since long ago that individual justice if not the answer. I think it's sad to believe that an individual can do better and can be wiser than the general agreed rules. In my opinion it shows a great level of distrust in humanity.
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Post by jafo19d on Jun 21, 2016 6:09:39 GMT -5
The wolves love sheep that keep preaching resist.The more the sheep resist the more the wolves attack.Their is alot more sheep in the world then wolves but the wolves have the sheep on their knees Why is that? Errr maybe because the sheeps are vegetarian and not predators to the wolves? While wolves are on top of the food chain, like most of the big carnivore animals. Human beings are not sheeps or volwes, because they can think (well most of them), and therefore have values, principles, and opinions. The vast majority of us value life and peace, because it is part of our deeper inner needs, while a tiny minority put these values aside and are ready to kill for material things. All the human societies built policial and judicial systems to limit the harm done by these lost souls, because it has been understood since long ago that individual justice if not the answer. I think it's sad to believe that an individual can do better and can be wiser than the general agreed rules. In my opinion it shows a great level of distrust in humanity. Sheep are most civilians. Wolves are the scum of society preying on the defenseless. Finally come the sheep dogs, they protect the sheep even though the sheep despise them and have a bit of wolf in them.
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Post by dandl93 on Jun 21, 2016 6:52:37 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2016 10:18:14 GMT -5
How does this effect the typical gringo on Medellin, not much other than to live a low key lifestyle , and keep your personal business quiet. There seems to be a prevailing attitude amongst ex-pats that Medellin is getting more dangerous, it could be and the statistics just have not caught up. I still think driving is the most dangerous thing an ex pat can do however , or riding my moto, but as I tell the wife , the life insurance doubles if it's an accident, getting shot by a bad guy she gets half as much. I agree. Keep a low profile with a low key lifestyle with your personal business to yourself and you will avoid most problems. Many of the expat homicides and many of the other expat deaths that I am aware of trace back to suspected drugs, resisting a robbery or suspected involvement with prepagos, sex tourism, sketchy woman and the likes. I know many expats living a low key lifestyle like I do haven't had any problems. Most of the apartments in the Medellín area I have lived in have 24x7 porterias and I have added security doors in two of them so no worries while I am at home or away on vacation. Keeping a low profile and low key lifestyle is certainly good advice. The point of my original post was that even people who are following this advice are experiencing some very bad things(not only gringos but the general population). Some real life examples(of people we know) just in the last month- Couple driving down Las Vegas in Poblado Sunday morning with 2 young kids heading to a restaurant for breakfast(seems fairly low key to me)-robbed at gun point at a traffic light. Wife visiting a friend in Poblado for tea just off of Inferior in a nice part of town (seems fairly low key to me), goes outside to wait for her Taxi-motos robing a car with shots fired. Friend goes to an ATM at Zona 2 in Poblado one afternoon(seems fairly low key to me), found a day later-somewhere along the way she was attacked with scopolamine The Mother in law of my wife's nephew shopping at Oviedo Mall in Poblado with her daughter(seems fairly low key to me), leaves in a taxi and is robbed at gun point in Poblado by guys on motos. The list goes on and on, sure it helps to be low key, but don't think for one moment that eliminates the danger. And here is some recent news from the safest part of the valley.--http://www.minuto30.com/video-y-fotos-comerciante-samario-fue-ultimado-a-disparos-en-sabaneta/483436/ I guess it just ain't Mayberry.
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Post by suba on Jun 21, 2016 10:56:12 GMT -5
No matter how many examples are given there will always be posters who refuse to accept the reality. My experience was as bad if not worse than any of those posted above and I was about as low key as you could possibly be, being inside a friends house with a crowd of people I knew and in a good area in Bogotá.
The truth is you cannot live in Colombia as you would in the US or Europe, every day you are probably close to those who will rob you if you give them the opportunity, (the opportunity only has to be stopping at a traffic light at the wrong time). Don't listen to anyone that tells you that if you stay away from drugs and prostitution that there is no danger, it is however almost certain that if you do business in those arenas that you will be a victim and probably have a slot on the news.
All the other stuff doesn't warrant a mention and isn't reported or included in any crime stats if it is. Forget the stats, they are as useful as the stats that say a metro is coming to Bogotá or that sex tourists aren't encouraged to come and spend their money in Medellin.
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Post by barrumundi on Jun 21, 2016 11:12:32 GMT -5
Have to agree with suba 100%. Colombia is a dangerous place ......and seems to be getting worse in general. Yes living a low-key lifestyle and avoiding dangerous places and dangerous situations will increase your chances of avoiding crime but at any given moment you could simply be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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Post by livinginmedellin on Jun 21, 2016 13:00:58 GMT -5
I agree. Keep a low profile with a low key lifestyle with your personal business to yourself and you will avoid most problems. Many of the expat homicides and many of the other expat deaths that I am aware of trace back to suspected drugs, resisting a robbery or suspected involvement with prepagos, sex tourism, sketchy woman and the likes. I know many expats living a low key lifestyle like I do haven't had any problems. Most of the apartments in the Medellín area I have lived in have 24x7 porterias and I have added security doors in two of them so no worries while I am at home or away on vacation. Keeping a low profile and low key lifestyle is certainly good advice. The point of my original post was that even people who are following this advice are experiencing some very bad things(not only gringos but the general population). Some real life examples(of people we know) just in the last month- Couple driving down Las Vegas in Poblado Sunday morning with 2 young kids heading to a restaurant for breakfast(seems fairly low key to me)-robbed at gun point at a traffic light. Wife visiting a friend in Poblado for tea just off of Inferior in a nice part of town (seems fairly low key to me), goes outside to wait for her Taxi-motos robing a car with shots fired. Friend goes to an ATM at Zona 2 in Poblado one afternoon(seems fairly low key to me), found a day later-somewhere along the way she was attacked with scopolamine The Mother in law of my wife's nephew shopping at Oviedo Mall in Poblado with her daughter(seems fairly low key to me), leaves in a taxi and is robbed at gun point in Poblado by guys on motos. The list goes on and on, sure it helps to be low key, but don't think for one moment that eliminates the danger. And here is some recent news from the safest part of the valley.--http://www.minuto30.com/video-y-fotos-comerciante-samario-fue-ultimado-a-disparos-en-sabaneta/483436/ I guess it just ain't Mayberry. Your examples are in El Poblado, which has seen a 15% increase in reported thefts/robberies so far this year. Thieves and criminals are obviously targeting this more wealthy area where most expat tourists stay. Regarding the news in Sabaneta, I know about that as I was walking nearby after this happened and saw the police. I asked one of the police what was going on and he said it was a homicide and that it was the first he knew of in Sabaneta so far this year. I am aware that Sabaneta police have monitoring cameras throughout the municipality and the area in the past has been reported to be the least violent municipality in the Valle de Aburrá.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2016 13:43:41 GMT -5
Keeping a low profile and low key lifestyle is certainly good advice. The point of my original post was that even people who are following this advice are experiencing some very bad things(not only gringos but the general population). Some real life examples(of people we know) just in the last month- Couple driving down Las Vegas in Poblado Sunday morning with 2 young kids heading to a restaurant for breakfast(seems fairly low key to me)-robbed at gun point at a traffic light. Wife visiting a friend in Poblado for tea just off of Inferior in a nice part of town (seems fairly low key to me), goes outside to wait for her Taxi-motos robing a car with shots fired. Friend goes to an ATM at Zona 2 in Poblado one afternoon(seems fairly low key to me), found a day later-somewhere along the way she was attacked with scopolamine The Mother in law of my wife's nephew shopping at Oviedo Mall in Poblado with her daughter(seems fairly low key to me), leaves in a taxi and is robbed at gun point in Poblado by guys on motos. The list goes on and on, sure it helps to be low key, but don't think for one moment that eliminates the danger. And here is some recent news from the safest part of the valley.--http://www.minuto30.com/video-y-fotos-comerciante-samario-fue-ultimado-a-disparos-en-sabaneta/483436/ I guess it just ain't Mayberry. Your examples are in El Poblado, which has seen a 15% increase in reported thefts/robberies so far this year. Thieves and criminals are obviously targeting this more wealthy area where most expat tourists stay. Regarding the news in Sabaneta, I know about that as I was walking nearby after this happened and saw the police. I asked one of the police what was going on and he said it was a homicide and that it was the first he knew of in Sabaneta so far this year. I am aware that Sabaneta police have monitoring cameras throughout the municipality and the area in the past has been reported to be the least violent municipality in the Valle de Aburrá. I fell in love with Sabaneta when I first visited Sabaneta almost 9 years ago, and vowed that I would spend my retirement in this idyllic "pueblo." Fast forward a few years, and my wish came true. Sabaneta was still my cup of tea, but it was growing fast. I bought an apartment with a fantastic view... that lasted two years until new construction obscured my view. I started hearing about robberies and breakins in Estrato 4 & 5 houses in my neighborhood. The once trendy Parque Erato behind CC Aves Maria started turning into a blighted "no-man's land" complete with grafitti, damaged/defaced structures, empty stores, fleteros and pushers. Nevertheless, I clung to the image of of an upscale, idyllic pueblo in spite of the reality. Even after several residents and empleadas of my building were robbed at gunpoint, and personally witnessing a mass armed robbery, I still did not give up hope. It wasn't until being told (quite frankly) by various municipal representatives that there wasn't much that could be done to clean up the "oficinas" in public spaces, I decided to move out of the "pueblo." I don't believe any of the crime statistics posted in the media or official government websites. Greater Medellin has an image it wants to protect... it is a city on the rebound and is safe for foreign visitors and investment. Although, I think it has improved and developed since the early 2000s, Medellin and the neighboring municipalities have a long way to go in terms of security (as well as other issues). Sabaneta is still a fun place to visit, but I would not want to live there.
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