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Post by daluz on Nov 27, 2023 11:25:08 GMT -5
A few bits from the article: “There are stations that have not worked well for years. You start in Sabaneta looking for a good station but you don't find it, you continue to El Poblado and neither, that's how you go until you reach Laureles to see if you have any luck," explained a driver." "As mentioned previously, many of the stations that currently provide optimal service are those located in private spaces such as shopping centers, which handle different dynamics than a station available 24 hours a day. If I am running out of charge, and it is 10:00 p.m., they are not going to let me go to a shopping center to recharge. What do I do there then? another owner summarized the drama.: "And another thing that must be taken into account is the indiscipline of the people. Although the stations have in their instruction manuals that the maximum charging time is three hours, there are inconsiderate people who leave the car “stuck” all day." www.elcolombiano.com/medellin/estaciones-de-carga-para-vehiculos-electricos-en-medellin-taxistas-denuncian-problemas-DJ23198092Mrs Daluz and I have often thought about trying an electric vehicle, but it is stuff like this that keeps us away. I suppose since we basically just tool around our town we could pop some type of charger at the house, but it is still difficult if you want to wander further. I suppose the green energy thing is not ready for prime time. I get everything needs to start someplace, but everything always seems harder here in Colombia. I chuckled reading the part about the entitled shits who leave the car connected all day and am amazed why folks don't have these guys towed. Be well.
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Post by wildstubby on Nov 27, 2023 12:30:10 GMT -5
I read an article a few weeks ago that the auto industry is dropping the manufacture of Ecars because people aren't buying them. Which is good I think. This whole E-car thing is a fantasy. There is no rapid recharge, you have to replace battery packs, (at the cost of thousands of dollars!), every 5~7 years. There is no feasible way to recycle or recover the rare earth elements needed to make them, (most located in China). So I'm betting more on hydrogen either to use directly as fuel or to be used as a catalyst in making electricity. NASA has been using that for years. It is the most abundant resource in the universe and it is renewable.
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Post by daluz on Nov 27, 2023 13:00:21 GMT -5
Wildstubby,
I agree electric just isn't ready yet for larger transportation stuff. Motorcycles and bicycles seem pretty cool and supportable.
I have no drama with obtaining something better than gasoline. I know there will be setbacks and such, but this rush to do everything green seems more politically motivated and appears to include a lot of kickbacks...but what doesn't these days.
Maybe the hybrid car needs more attention than a total electric thing.
I'll read more refer the hydrogen thing, wasn't aware about NASA use but they seem like a pretty smart bunch. Be well.
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Post by wildstubby on Nov 27, 2023 17:54:13 GMT -5
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Post by daluz on Nov 28, 2023 9:08:25 GMT -5
Thanks for this, interesting read.
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Post by james on Nov 28, 2023 10:25:08 GMT -5
At first, I was supportive of Elecric cars. Now that I understand the logistics (i.e. lack of charging stations, battery pack replacement cost, etc.) , I am having second thoughts. But since California (and 8 other states) enacted a ban on ICE powered vehicles starting in 2035, I am totally against them. I do not like having government take away something I like, while shoving something else down my throat. Alternative fuel like hydrogen yes. Especially if someone developed an inexpensive way to convert existing ICE engines to run on hydrogen. They will run on natural gas which is pollution-free, so another type of gas conversion seems feasible to me. If the E-car manufacturers come up with less expensive (or rebuildable) batteries, and provide an on-board charger that can be plugged into any wall socket then maybe I'll change my mind.
- James
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Post by elexpatriado on Nov 29, 2023 21:20:24 GMT -5
I read an article a few weeks ago that the auto industry is dropping the manufacture of Ecars because people aren't buying them. Which is good I think. This whole E-car thing is a fantasy. There is no rapid recharge, you have to replace battery packs, (at the cost of thousands of dollars!), every 5~7 years. There is no feasible way to recycle or recover the rare earth elements needed to make them, (most located in China). So I'm betting more on hydrogen either to use directly as fuel or to be used as a catalyst in making electricity. NASA has been using that for years. It is the most abundant resource in the universe and it is renewable. Hydrogen-even wackier idea Producing and using hydrogen is very thermodynamically inefficient. It is an endothermic reaction used to produce H2-at least 25% more energy input than you get out, and another 20 to 40% to compress or liquify and transport it, leaving less than 50% of the initial input energy available. For liquification, special cryogenic vessels, pumps and piping require, If you transport Hydrogen in gaseous form, it takes 3 times the volume per BTU / KJ as natural gas, requiring much larger piping and equipment. This is another reason existing pipelines and distribution system cannot be used for transporting pure hydrogen, (in addition to the material and metallurgical reasons stated below.) Hydrogen can be produced by electrolysis from renewable energy (so called “green” hydrogen) , which is very expensive or through steam reforming of natural gas, in which case you have to compress, liquify and inject the CO2 in a deep reservoir, in order to avoid CO2 emissions (So called “blue” hydrogen) H2 is very Explosive, - Has An LEL (lower explosive limit) of around 10% concentration in air and UEL (Upper explosive limit) of 90%-much bigger range than all hydrocarbons, Also requires less ignition energy to cause an explosion causing more frequent destructive explosions (most refinery nuclear, chemical, petrochemical plant explosions are in H2 plant or hydrotreating units-also see Led Zep Album cover),. H2 is also Very “leaky”, because H2 molecule so small diffusion in metals and plastics is very high, CANNOT use existing natural gas transportation and distribution system, special flange and joint tightening procedures . Hydrogen has major metallurgical and material issues- H2 embrittlement and stress-corrosion cracking, require Chrome Moly piping and equipment, increased gas and fire detection and safety requirements special HDPE piping for low pressure distribution. Basically, the Hydrogen energy push is a another SCAM. Converting to ammonia, with or without reconversion to H2 at the end point is even more costly, thermodynamically and practically ludicrous, because of the extra steps involved www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/the-hydrogen-hoax
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Post by elexpatriado on Nov 29, 2023 21:23:03 GMT -5
The last few hydrogen powered rocket launches for NASA and Space X blew up
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Post by elexpatriado on Nov 29, 2023 22:01:52 GMT -5
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Post by wildstubby on Nov 29, 2023 22:19:25 GMT -5
elex, NASA used hydrogen and oxygen for the thrust in their Saturn VI rocket stages. It was natural to use that as a 'fuel source' to make electricity. Catalyzing rare earth metals just makes a godawful HAZMAT. Ask me how I know. We used hydrogen for catalyst in our processes too. We used to make sorbitol and it involved putting it at 1000psi of H2. When hydrogen is lit it creates water. Although for a clear atmosphere, you shouldn't see it burning. I merely mentioned it as a catalyst for electricity. Either way you don't have a HAZMAT. Just for the record, Henry Ford originally had his Model T designed to run on ethanol! You can extract H2 from methane. You are left with CO2 as a byproduct. But now they have discovered a way to recover the carbon and use it as graphene. A lot of possibilities but the use of lithium to make electric cells is rapidly loosing favor.
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Post by daluz on Nov 30, 2023 11:33:55 GMT -5
elex,
I never put two and two together refer the explosive properties before, thanks for that. I'd assume its better now, but I'm not versed enough to say anything more about this but you and wildstubby are sending me down the rabbit hole with this stuff. Be well!
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Post by james on Nov 30, 2023 12:01:37 GMT -5
I'm not a physicist or chemist. I'm just a gringo piasa who lives on a farm. So all this mumbo jumbo about H2 not being a viable alternative fuel is way over my head. A simple, " it won't work," works for me.
-James
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Post by elexpatriado on Nov 30, 2023 22:37:51 GMT -5
elex, NASA used hydrogen and oxygen for the thrust in their Saturn VI rocket stages. It was natural to use that as a 'fuel source' to make electricity. Catalyzing rare earth metals just makes a godawful HAZMAT. Ask me how I know. We used hydrogen for catalyst in our processes too. We used to make sorbitol and it involved putting it at 1000psi of H2. When hydrogen is lit it creates water. Although for a clear atmosphere, you shouldn't see it burning. I merely mentioned it as a catalyst for electricity. Either way you don't have a HAZMAT. Just for the record, Henry Ford originally had his Model T designed to run on ethanol! You can extract H2 from methane. You are left with CO2 as a byproduct. But now they have discovered a way to recover the carbon and use it as graphene. A lot of possibilities but the use of lithium to make electric cells is rapidly loosing favor. Wildstubby, I know nothing about the Pharamaceutical industry, but I know the oil and gas and petrochem industry, worked as an engineer for 30 years, including hydrogen, hydrotreaters, hydrogen plants I know it is hard for a layman to understand engineering principles like thermodynamics. metalurgy, gas dynamics, even if you read what I wrote and the attached document Hydrogen fuel for a specilized use like a rocket booster, does not make it suitable for common every day uses. A doctors scapel is great for opertions, doesnt mean it can be used for clearing forest growth. BTW You have it backwards. The electricity is used for making hydrogen in the electrolysis process. Not the other way around. And hydrogen is not an energy souce, it is an enegy carrier, And in carrying the energy, it loses most of the original energy in generation, compression, liquification, transportation and distribution. Plus, it is corrosive, (Hydrogen stress embritlement-cracking ), will leak out of anything, more explosive than natural gas (higher and lower air fuel levels causing explosion and lower energy threshold to cause explosion), only one third as energy dense at the same temperature and pressure as natural gas, meaning much bigger pipes needed for same energy content, and the piping, vessels and equipment has to be made from more exotic anti-embrittlement and leak tight materials. And yes , it definitely does detonate, In addition to all the rockets that blew up, and the Hindenberg, thousands of refinery , petrochemical, nuclear fires and explosions have occured in the hydrogen plant and hydrotreaters. These areas are some of the most dangerous parts ofthe plant, for reasons stated above. You can see the flames with the hindenberg explosion, Allthough it is debatable wither that is caused by the material that is burnt with the hydrogen explosion or the actual gas itself.
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Post by elexpatriado on Nov 30, 2023 22:45:29 GMT -5
I'm not a physicist or chemist. I'm just a gringo piasa who lives on a farm. So all this mumbo jumbo about H2 not being a viable alternative fuel is way over my head. A simple, " it won't work," works for me. -James Anything will work if you sink enough money into it, and arent afraid of safety risks and unreliabiliy. As Bjorn Lomberg says "An engineer will tell you, yes it is possible to build a tunnel (or bridge) between the US and Europe, but an intellectually honest engineer will advise against the idea, as being ueconomic and impractical.
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Post by mudd on Dec 1, 2023 8:04:28 GMT -5
toyota is working on a new fuel that has zero emissions.... notice toyota hasnt gone all in on elect cars....they dont believe in all elect either
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Post by wildstubby on Dec 2, 2023 15:45:45 GMT -5
All I do know elex is what Samuel Clemens said about arguing with a fool!
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Post by charlie640 on Dec 4, 2023 23:41:31 GMT -5
Battery technology SUCKS, and has not seen the same advancements as other tech items. Energy density is key. I will consider buying an E car when:
- I can drive from NYC to San Fran on a Single Charge - Can charge car in under 2 hours - Battery can maintain full Mah capacity after 1000 Charge / Discharge Cycles - Battery Capacity is stable at Sub-Zero Temps - BAttery / Car has failsafes so I won't go up in smoke if it should malfunction
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Post by elexpatriado on Dec 5, 2023 13:42:17 GMT -5
All I do know elex is what Samuel Clemens said about arguing with a fool! Thats why I dont argue with you about Pharmaceuticals. I know the limits of myv experise and knowledge. I keep an open mind when it comes to things that make logical, engineering or scientific sense and are not overly politisized by either the right, left or crony capitalists that will serve whatever Master as long as they profit from it.
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Post by Mondongo on Dec 5, 2023 20:12:13 GMT -5
"A doctors scapel is great for operations, doesnt mean it can be used for clearing forest growth."
Depends on the surgeon. I remember working as a circulator in the OR many years ago, and one of the cardiothoracic surgeons had too much of a habit of leaning over and sweating into the open surgical wound, resulting in an increased infection rate with his post op patients. So I offered to get him a stool.... His reply? "No thanks, I had one this morning after my coffee."
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