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Post by wildstubby on Nov 29, 2016 6:56:05 GMT -5
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Post by jabberwocky on Nov 29, 2016 7:10:17 GMT -5
I was told in the past by one of the commercial airline pilots that flies into MDE ( was probably Spirit) that it is a difficult airport to fly into - their pilots have to be checked out ( practice flight) into the airport before they are allowed to fly route. The plane that crashed was a charter - have no idea the answer - but possibly pilot did not have experience flying into MDE ( or very little) also charter airlines tend to have less experienced pilots, my brother who flies for Alaskan Airlines ( formerly Virgin America) always tells me the pilots are there for when something goes wrong - the planes nowadays basically fly themselves, combine lack of experience and a difficult airport along with bad weather - a small problem can turn into a big one.
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Post by sedelen on Nov 29, 2016 8:38:07 GMT -5
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Post by wildstubby on Nov 29, 2016 9:35:52 GMT -5
I know! They are saying 5 people survived. But what I don't understand is the pilot flying a 'racetrack' pattern prior to the crash. I hate Monday morning quarterbacking but I would like to know why he did that! I would think to get it on the 'deck' where one can find a foamed runway and EMS seconds away instead of minutes would be of greater priority.
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Post by colombiana on Nov 29, 2016 10:34:32 GMT -5
So sad, I was going to the finals game on Wednesday.
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Post by sedelen on Nov 29, 2016 11:44:30 GMT -5
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Post by jabberwocky on Nov 29, 2016 12:30:35 GMT -5
It was a plane belonging to a Bolivian charter company - that would not have given me a lot of confidence if I was flying on it, again its really about the ability of the pilots if something goes wrong. I have a number of clients in South Florida who sell aviation parts to airlines in Latin America - will have to ask them about airlines in Bolivia.
This hits a bit close to home for me since I fly into MDE usually about 5 times a year and know the approach well - I am a bit nervous when we come in at night with low visibility - I know the mountains around the area - you don't have to make a big mistake to put yourself into a bit of danger.
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winsurfer
Junior Member
felem in catino
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Post by winsurfer on Nov 29, 2016 13:11:00 GMT -5
Site of the crash:
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Post by coolcoil on Nov 29, 2016 15:41:50 GMT -5
The crash site is about 2.5 miles (4 km) southeast of our house as the crow flies. It's on the other side of a mountain ridge, so I can't see it. I was awake at the time the plane apparently crashed, but I didn't hear anything. Blackhawk helicopters have been shuttling back and forth in front of the house all afternoon. They are carrying out the dead.
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Post by wildstubby on Nov 29, 2016 15:42:39 GMT -5
He was still about 10~15 miles from the airport! I would almost think he gave up on his instrumentation. The FDR's will tell the story but he was way short of any runway near MDE. Aircraft like this are designed for low/slow flight and approach. If he put it into the hillside, chances are he became disoriented and was second guessing his instrumentation and spiraled in. Just my assessment. I'm not a pilot but I do, can, and am licensed to repair aircraft navigational radar and instrumentation!
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Post by livinginmedellin on Nov 29, 2016 16:15:54 GMT -5
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Post by coolcoil on Nov 29, 2016 16:56:59 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2016 17:07:01 GMT -5
Go to www.avherald.com (a lot of info) then Click on the C lamia flight This is a simple instrument approach to Rio Negro (the downtown old airport is a can of worms as foggy a lot and high terrain south of the runway--like houses) They speak of another flt vivo colombia that was diverting and just ahead--so possibly reason in the holding pattern or was descending in the holding pattern for the approach as the chart demonstrates-- appears the engine were not running--however on these 4 engine deals some times 2 of the 4 would be at idle during descent --these things have GPWS ---an altitude alert alarm would have gone off to warn of rising terrain
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2016 17:10:07 GMT -5
My wife's nephew works at the airport and running out of fuel was the rumor there early this morning. Not sure of the validity of the rumor. He also said that pilots for that company complained about the company.
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Post by coolcoil on Nov 29, 2016 17:18:30 GMT -5
My wife's nephew works at the airport and running out of fuel was the rumor there early this morning. Not sure of the validity of the rumor. He also said that pilots for that company complained about the company. Well, if it was sloppy company practice, it came home to roost in this case. The pilot was the owner of the charter company according to the article to which I linked earlier.
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Post by sedelen on Nov 29, 2016 17:34:20 GMT -5
It was a plane belonging to a Bolivian charter company - that would not have given me a lot of confidence if I was flying on it, again its really about the ability of the pilots if something goes wrong. I have a number of clients in South Florida who sell aviation parts to airlines in Latin America - will have to ask them about airlines in Bolivia. This hits a bit close to home for me since I fly into MDE usually about 5 times a year and know the approach well - I am a bit nervous when we come in at night with low visibility - I know the mountains around the area - you don't have to make a big mistake to put yourself into a bit of danger. I've made the flight a few time myself as I know many others that do. The first flight here, we were in a weather hold at night for about an hour. Lot's of turbulence, but no problems, subsequent trips often proved the same. I didn't pay it much thought, now I'll probably be a little nervous. Looking at the crash scene photo, I was trying to figure out how the plane ended in the valley and all the trees along the mountain side that were taken down but had no large pieces from the aircraft. It appears the plane decended down the mountain as opposed to plowing into it. That would explain the survivors as otherwise there probably would be zero chance of any.
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Post by sedelen on Nov 29, 2016 17:37:11 GMT -5
I noticed no sign of any fire, and thought about the fuel situation, which I believe one survivor believe said happened.
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Post by wildstubby on Nov 29, 2016 18:21:45 GMT -5
The lack of fire would be happenstance. The aircraft would have still maintained vapor pressure in its fuel cells which is more combustible than raw fuel, JP-4, (highly refined kerosene). A declaration of any emergency should have given him priority straight in no holding pattern. If he lost electrical, and all navigational aids, he still would have had a compass and comms. (I would hope). The tower could have talked him in with bearing, altitude, and speed. But once again, this is all speculation.
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Post by sedelen on Nov 29, 2016 19:12:54 GMT -5
The crash site is about 2.5 miles (4 km) southeast of our house as the crow flies. It's on the other side of a mountain ridge, so I can't see it. I was awake at the time the plane apparently crashed, but I didn't hear anything. Blackhawk helicopters have been shuttling back and forth in front of the house all afternoon. They are carrying out the dead. The blackhawks are doing exactly that as the video in this article shows. all the bodies lined up on a hill waiting to be flown out. www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/brazilian-teams-season-of-glory-ends-in-tragedy/ar-AAkSWxs?ocid=spartandhp
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Post by livinginmedellin on Nov 29, 2016 20:24:24 GMT -5
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Post by livinginmedellin on Nov 29, 2016 20:30:07 GMT -5
Classy move - Atletico Nacional is asking that CONMEBOL give the 2016 Copa Sudamericana to Chapecoense following the fatal plane crash that occurred late Monday night. "After worrying about the human aspect, we thought about the competitive aspect and we want to publish this statement in which Atletico Nacional asks CONMEBOL to present the title for the Copa Sudamericana to Chapecoense to honor their big loss and as a posthumous honor to the victims of the fatal accident that our sport mourns," the team said in a statement. See: www.foxsports.com/soccer/story/chapecoense-atletico-nacional-copa-sudamericana-title-112916
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Post by coolcoil on Nov 29, 2016 20:35:46 GMT -5
I think this is highly unlikely. First, it is very rare for smaller planes to have fuel dumping capability. It's only needed for widebodies that would be too heavy to land with full tanks. Second, dumping fuel takes a lot of time. You don't just push a button and all of the fuel falls out of the plane. It's a relatively small drain. I recall an air emergency in the UK within the last few years where a plane had to circle for an hour dumping fuel before returning to the airport after an engine had failed.
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Post by wildstubby on Nov 29, 2016 21:57:59 GMT -5
Those BAE-146's have been around almost forever. I remember flying in them back in the 80's. They are a large version of a puddle jumper! Although many airlines replaced them with the Dash-8's and the EMB-190's. I always wondered why they needed 4 power plants on that aircraft.
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flaco
New Member
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Post by flaco on Nov 29, 2016 22:16:38 GMT -5
Fuel starvation. The EEUU requires at a minimum 45 minutes of extra fuel for a registered flight. Needless, careless, deaths on the pilots part
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Post by coolcoil on Nov 29, 2016 22:43:16 GMT -5
Those BAE-146's have been around almost forever. I remember flying in them back in the 80's. They are a large version of a puddle jumper! Although many airlines replaced them with the Dash-8's and the EMB-190's. I always wondered why they needed 4 power plants on that aircraft. Back when their plane was designed, you had to have three or four engines if you wanted the plane to be certified for overwater flight.
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Post by wildstubby on Nov 29, 2016 22:56:33 GMT -5
Yeah, but 737-300/-400 routinely flew over water and they have always had 2 power plants. These weren't long haul aircraft. They were commuter planes competing with the Beechcraft 1900's, Dash-7/-8 and even the old Constellations. I remember Presidential Airlines flew them exclusively on the east coast. I think PSA used them for hops up and down the CA coastline with the 727's and 737's hauling the longer routes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2016 7:38:30 GMT -5
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Post by livinginmedellin on Nov 30, 2016 14:45:13 GMT -5
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Post by sedelen on Nov 30, 2016 15:52:14 GMT -5
Newer reports coming to light, the desperate pleas from the pilot requesting priority landing do to no fuel. Negligence coming into play as the plane should never have never been allowed to leave without a reserve. And so it is, heavy rains, a lot of planes in the pattern, and you have this emergency. Perhaps I shouldn't say this, but if the air traffic controllers reacted a little quicker this might have been averted. I mean it made several loops in the area before it went down. Appears the plane just ran out of fuel. www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pilot-told-colombia-controllers-no-fuel-before-crash/ar-AAkW1Pr?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp
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Post by coolcoil on Nov 30, 2016 17:32:21 GMT -5
Newer reports coming to light, the desperate pleas from the pilot requesting priority landing do to no fuel. Negligence coming into play as the plane should never have never been allowed to leave without a reserve. And so it is, heavy rains, a lot of planes in the pattern, and you have this emergency. Perhaps I shouldn't say this, but if the air traffic controllers reacted a little quicker this might have been averted. I mean it made several loops in the area before it went down. Appears the plane just ran out of fuel. www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pilot-told-colombia-controllers-no-fuel-before-crash/ar-AAkW1Pr?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhpI haven't seen any evidence the controllers did not react quickly once they were told of the issue. The plane was circling because another airliner had been given priority to land due to a fuel leak. I am sure that the controllers would have given the Limia jet priority had they been informed that he was extremely low on fuel. My suspicion is that he was inattentive to his gauges and/or they were inaccurate and he didn't know anything until the first engine shut down.
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