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Post by gallito on Jul 22, 2016 22:09:27 GMT -5
My first lesson of Latino Family Values 101 began when I lived abroad. I didn’t yet live with my boyfriend, but from my apartment down the street, I got my first taste of just how important family is. Yes, you could argue that family is important across all cultures, but in Colombia, familia takes up an extra special place in the heart of the people.
Coming from a mixed background, I was raised to different beat, where everyone was expected to start standing on their own two feet by 18-years-old, senior citizens included. Out of high school (and even during), it was normal to start working part-time jobs, and for many, finance their own university education. Where I come from, the elderly who can no longer care for themselves are usually placed in retirement homes. This sort of thing…
This is not the norm of Colombia. Colombian families tend to provide an enormous amount of support. Whether it be for the better or for the worst, I leave that up to you. For families who can afford it, they will finance their children through their post-graduate education until they have a steady job, with children never having the need to work small gigs. For the less fortunate, children more often than not work to contribute to the family’s household expenses (as kids usually don’t move out until marriage anyways) and the abuelos who can no longer live alone will most likely be under the care of their loved ones.
These are just a few examples of the differences I was about to encounter.
I didn’t understand how my 20-something boyfriend who had just started to live away from home thought that spending one month during summer vacation and 3-4 weeks during Christmas with his family was too little! I was relishing in my independence away from mom and dad and seeing them for Christmas only was fine by me, as it would allow me to have the entire summer to explore on my own.
When the family would visit their son in Europe in his small, shared, apartment, they would all squeeze together. This was beyond me as the common rule of thumb was that if your family didn’t fit in your house, they should simply get a nearby hotel so as not to disturb and so everyone remains comfortable. But in this case, it seemed there was always room no matter how small and being comfortable was no issue as they would be fine even if they slept at 3 on a small sofa bed. What mattered most was that they remain together.
Years later, when we moved in together, I was worried I wouldn’t adapt to the tight-knit family culture. I had a hard time not stressing out meanwhile having to accommodate 5 people in 50m2. While I understood it made no sense to them to stay at a hotel if they had come all this way to visit, it still seemed a bit insane.
I also had the notion that people saved the majority of their vacation to get escape with their partner and/or friends. However, I quickly learned while planning our couple vacation, that the large majority of days off was reserved for family. So if I didn’t join in on the big latin family vacation, I would simply have to travel solo on my 28 days of paid vacation.
This was Lesson #1: Family is the single most important social unit.
My first taste of South America when living in Miami was along the lines of spicy guacamole, dirty reggaeton and hot chicas in skimpy clothing. I’m sure you can imagine my surprise when I landed in Bogotá! Lovely but much somber than I had pictured, Bogotanos did not fit the bill of my fantasy. They were…how to say…more serious. At the time of this first trip to Colombia, my boyfriend and I had been dating for a few years, however, I was still made to sleep in a separate bedroom. So taking in from the cues of my surroundings, I reassessed my stereotypes and concluded that:
Lesson #2: Latin American families are conservative.
During that same trip, I was immediately presented to the grandparents. I also noticed that at almost every activity and meal, the cousins, grandparents, aunt and uncles were usually present.
Lesson #3: A Latin family unit doesn’t limit to mom, dad and children but extends to grandparents, cousins, etc.
And during those get-togethers, everyone from grandpa to cousin got up to dance salsa. After much reluctance, I soon came to realize I had no choice but to shuffle my feet however I could manage if I didn’t want to be a social reject. No family or friend reunion is complete without some dancing so next time you are invited to a BBQ, be ready to pull out your best moves!
Lesson #4: Dance or Die.
Now years later, here I am in Colombia, bathing in Latin culture, still adapting slowly all the while maintaining a healthy personal space. I think it’s important to stay true to oneself all the while accepting the differences and treasuring the beauty and support a close Latin family has to bring.
Soon enough, I might be the one bunking with my children in their dorm rooms, being the first to shake my hips at parties and telling my hija that she can’t date until she marries.
BY BOGOTASTIC · PUBLISHED JUNE 11, 2015 · UPDATED NOVEMBER 13, 2015
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Post by jabberwocky on Jul 23, 2016 6:49:53 GMT -5
That seems about right. My wife is always worried about my mom who is 80, is widowed and lives alone, just not something that would happen in Colombia, she always tells her she can move in with us in Orlando, but my Mom likes living alone, she likes her independence, she is in good health ( still mows her own yard) wife just does not get it.
My daughter - went to Brazil at 16 as an exchange student for a year, joined the army at 18 and graduated college at 23 - never had any interest in returning to live at home, my son is on the same path, at 18 going into the Navy next month , I am sure he will never return home to live - it is just what most gringos do. My stepdaughters here in Orlando ( 18 & 16) tell me there are going to live with us until they get married ( I did tell them no way they are living with us after they get married). I just don't get it at times - they get upset with their mother for riding them hard , wanting to know where they are, not allowing them to go places - I would think they might want to get out asap to have more independence - but no - they are not going anywhere soon ( for next 6-8 years).
It seems most Colombian mothers are pretty strict/tough with their daughters - surprised more don't strike out on their own earlier in life, but I don't know a single early twenty something female in Colombia that has her own apartment or shares one with other young women - they all live at home. I understand why the sons stay at home - the mothers baby them - no responsibilities - why leave when you can treat your mother like a servant.
When friends or family visit Orlando - they almost always stay with us - even though many have plenty of money to pay for a nice hotel, I put up with it. But when I travel to Medellin , I do not stay at our apartment in Envigado - I have not interest in staying in a 120 sq foot apartment with 6 other Colombians, they may be a little insulted that the wife and I get a hotel - but it is just my gringo sense-abilities.
None of the above are great problems for me, just a big difference in culture.
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Post by wildstubby on Jul 23, 2016 8:59:55 GMT -5
You know, this is the kind of information a gringo like me needs to know when preparing to get (ahem) tied up with a Latina, especially from Colombia. When I was young, I wanted to get out of the house and show that I could make it on my own. However, I did return once with my tail firmly between my legs!
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Post by sedelen on Jul 23, 2016 13:42:58 GMT -5
Family is very important, and usually big here, and activities, parties, social gatherings, vacations, etc. have a tendency to get very large with as many people as can attend. And when you marry into one, you usually end up marrying the family also, as a general rule.
So, when that time comes, should it, it's welcome to the Family!
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Post by búfalo on Jul 23, 2016 14:19:49 GMT -5
Yeah, family is number one on all levels, sure....
Adult males dating little kids, neither family says anything, nooo
Uncles, older cousins sexually abusing little kids in the family, nope, never (or a constant?)
Parents abandoned and thrown out to the street once they become a burden, course not
Family members stealing from each or not paying back debts, or losing property because their stupid brother doesn't pay rent amd they were the fiador, ohhhh and HOW many single moms out there? How often does one of the four dad's she have kids with show up?
Kids with the maid forgotten about blah, blah, blah but hey the writer needs material so Colombia is aaaaall about family.
Yeah sure, how long was she in Colombia for? Did the boyfriend cause her financial difficultt and try to sleep with her cousins yet ?
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Post by jabberwocky on Jul 23, 2016 14:33:00 GMT -5
Bufalo - I assume their are many different types of Colombian families out there - I don't recognize the one you describe - have never seen a parent /elder abandoned - there is always someone within ours to take them in, there are always black sheep though - but they are well known and are treated accordingly - married men stepping out on their wives - that is a problem, men not taking responsibility for offspring - that is another big problem.
I have a lot of respect for Colombian women - they have to deal with a lot of crap - raise the kids many times without much financial support - Colombian guys - while I have a number of friends close to my age - I get along with them well - but I know they have something on the side, which by Colombian standards is OK I guess- for whatever reason most Colombian wives put up with it. Maybe the younger generation is different - I hope so but don't know.
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Post by búfalo on Jul 23, 2016 14:49:54 GMT -5
Well off "families" don't throw the feezees out because they are usually living off the money made by the parents and parents still save their butts when they get in trouble. Not all but it does happen among poorer ones.
I.also forgot to mention tje surprising amountnof mothers who walk out on dad and kids. IMO most Colombian guys are shit but the cheating etc. is definitely normal with both sexes. Stealing someone's "guy", or borrowing him for a quickie, is quite commonplace as well. I'm about 20+ years with all diffferent strata ams olaces in Colombia. Not saying everyone, but to say family in Colombia in general is revered is a joke.
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Post by búfalo on Jul 23, 2016 14:52:05 GMT -5
Wow, more like 25+, damn I'm getting old
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Post by suba on Jul 23, 2016 15:05:24 GMT -5
There are two main reasons families stay close.
1 If they didn't half of them would starve.
2 They can't trust anyone else.
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Post by jabberwocky on Jul 23, 2016 18:12:08 GMT -5
agree with Suba - without pooling their resources many would really struggle. Same happens here in FLorida with Colombian families - kids still live at home after finishing HS or college and their wages go to household bills. My stepdaughters make a good wage working part-time - they send money back to Colombia to help a couple of half - sisters, their father doesn't support them or his other offspring - so the girls step in to help.
Pretty hard to survive on the minimum or close to the minimum working in Colombia, especially living in larger cities - pooling the money is really the only choice - many times 4-5 generations in same house.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2016 18:18:42 GMT -5
There are two main reasons families stay close. 1 If they didn't half of them would starve. 2 They can't trust anyone else. From my experience, this is so true. In every family, there seems to be one or two "go-to" members who carry the load for the rest of the family (financially and emotionally). I believe the culture of distrust outside the family helps keep them close, too. Even though, the family remains close, that does not necessarily imply harmony. The daily family drama and fights are normal and routine... and can get old very quickly if you (as an outsider) get too close to the fire. Command performances are required at all the major holidays and family events. If you've married into a Colombian family, it can be a delicate tight-rope act, but you do need to assert your right to remain close, yet independent, from the rest of the family. Be understanding of familial needs, but if you would rather stay out of something, do it with diplomacy and respect for your spouse and the family. Sometimes, they will understand, but many times they won't. Be kind and fair... but not an easy mark.
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Post by suba on Jul 23, 2016 18:32:17 GMT -5
And there's a third reason, touched on by bufalo, the mother or grandmother is usually stuck bringing up the new addition to the family given that the father of the child is inevitably out of the picture and the girl is unable to financially support herself, let alone the child.
It's all forced on the females in the family, nothing to do with family values at all.
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Post by billforce on Jul 23, 2016 21:13:08 GMT -5
And there's a third reason, touched on by bufalo, the mother or grandmother is usually stuck bringing up the new addition to the family given that the father of the child is inevitably out of the picture and the girl is unable to financially support herself, let alone the child. It's all forced on the females in the family, nothing to do with family values at all. Hey mate, you live with a completely different group of Colombian's than I do, I can't relate to your analogies regarding lifestyle. All my family down to the college kids are responsible citizens and take marriage and life in general quite seriously. All are employed, they take care of their own children, pay their bills, don't chaser skirts. This is one area of Colombia that is difficult to understand, the lower working class are a separate group as compared to professionals. The lower class like my Mayordomo normally don't marry, they shun education, they are ultra macho and often fight but they in no way relate to the Colombian educated class of people. Some of the best people I've ever met are Colombians, kind, gracious, educated, excellent work ethics, respectful of their peers and God fearing citizens with maybe a few flaws, they tend to drink a lot, they are overprotective of their families actually to the point of being ridiculous in taking sides even when they know the family member in question is dead wrong. I have yet to meet a family member here that if in trouble, even temporary that the family didn't jump right in to rescue them, resources, money, family disputes etc. Maybe someday I'll be exposed to YOUR Colombia but as of now I don't recognize it, you must live in a totally different world than I do.
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Post by búfalo on Jul 23, 2016 23:39:12 GMT -5
That could all be 100% like you say. Honestly I don't buy it as I have seen most of the same or worse from the uppers. But I could be wrong and maybe the family you speak of is 100% together with the exception of a few flaws.
Let's even say it is that class across the board. That class hardly represents the typical Colombian in Colombia.
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Post by suba on Jul 24, 2016 7:07:17 GMT -5
And there's a third reason, touched on by bufalo, the mother or grandmother is usually stuck bringing up the new addition to the family given that the father of the child is inevitably out of the picture and the girl is unable to financially support herself, let alone the child. It's all forced on the females in the family, nothing to do with family values at all. Hey mate, you live with a completely different group of Colombian's than I do, I can't relate to your analogies regarding lifestyle. All my family down to the college kids are responsible citizens and take marriage and life in general quite seriously. All are employed, they take care of their own children, pay their bills, don't chaser skirts. This is one area of Colombia that is difficult to understand, the lower working class are a separate group as compared to professionals. The lower class like my Mayordomo normally don't marry, they shun education, they are ultra macho and often fight but they in no way relate to the Colombian educated class of people. Some of the best people I've ever met are Colombians, kind, gracious, educated, excellent work ethics, respectful of their peers and God fearing citizens with maybe a few flaws, they tend to drink a lot, they are overprotective of their families actually to the point of being ridiculous in taking sides even when they know the family member in question is dead wrong. I have yet to meet a family member here that if in trouble, even temporary that the family didn't jump right in to rescue them, resources, money, family disputes etc. Maybe someday I'll be exposed to YOUR Colombia but as of now I don't recognize it, you must live in a totally different world than I do.
Horseshit I'm talking about the majority of Colombian families, you don't seem to have stepped out of the fenced compound you live in. From what I remember you've posted on here on numerous occasions that your family was recently the victim of serious crime - from what I remember an in law was executed in cold blood - yet now you write as if every Colombian you've ever met is directly related to Mary Poppins. If you ever walk outside of that fence you'll experience Colombia, right now you're just on an enforced all inclusive vacation.
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Post by jabberwocky on Jul 24, 2016 7:13:45 GMT -5
Large families living and spending time together does not = tranquility.
At times with the wife's family its like living inside a telenova - even from 2,000 miles away.
Luckily my poor language skills means to follow conversations I need to listen closely - if it is background conversations - goes in one ear and out the other - my radar is tuned to listening for "gringo" when I hear that then I pay attention.
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Post by suba on Jul 24, 2016 7:28:23 GMT -5
I'm still struggling to believe that someone on here who has supposedly lived in Colombia for a number of years is arguing that the older women in many Colombian families don't bring up many of the new arrivals to the families - that's actually all I posted.
Maybe he's confused and living in a compound in Columbia Mississippi?
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Post by dandl93 on Jul 24, 2016 7:51:00 GMT -5
When a person selectively picks only a few to have around him does not change the fact of what is going on in the real world.There is 3 ways to go around in this world
1 with Blinders on
2 with Sun Glasses on
3 with your eyes wide open
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2016 8:35:46 GMT -5
The upper and lower strata Colombians are all doing the same things. The only difference is some from "Professional Families" use a little more discretion. At the end of the day little Juanita is still getting the short end of the stick.
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Post by suba on Jul 24, 2016 9:07:45 GMT -5
The upper and lower strata Colombians are all doing the same things. The only difference is some from "Professional Families" use a little more discretion. At the end of the day little Juanita is still getting the short end of the stick. It should be possible to give the thumbs up to posts like this more than once.
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Post by dandl93 on Jul 24, 2016 9:53:05 GMT -5
Weekend Fincas are not only used by the main family.
Many years ago a wealthy Colombian friend of mine told me never build your playground in the back yard of your main home
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2016 12:12:29 GMT -5
I sadly must agree with everything that's been said. There may be a handful of families in each city that is without fault, but on the other hand Colombian men are masters at hiding their mistresses. The truth usually comes out at his funeral when two or three strange women unknown to the family show up to pay him his last respect.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2016 12:51:21 GMT -5
Here is a story I'm going through right now. Gf has an almost 9 year old daughter, she separated from the kids dad when the girl was two because she found out he had a mosa. He never bothered to see his daughter except once when gf's mom took the kid over to his apartment some tree years ago. I talked her into going after him for child support. He is about to retire from the army and child support is pretty well guaranteed because the army will take it out of his paycheck and send it into her bank account. There is also a matter of back child support for almost 7 years. At the hearing in family Court he showed up with a lawyer the army provided, claiming she abducted the child, he had no idea where she lives and he want's custody because the mother suffers from depression and is an unfit mother. His layer produced medical records from 7 years ago when she was treated for depression. What mother with a 2 year old wouldn't get depressed if she finds out her companion of several years sleeps with an other woman? His mother always liked the kid and will raise her of course and he won't have to pay child support. The meeting was adjourned to August 5. I got her a good family lawyer or she might lose the child and I can't wait what the outcome will be.
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Post by billforce on Jul 24, 2016 13:11:28 GMT -5
Large families living and spending time together does not = tranquility. At times with the wife's family its like living inside a telenova - even from 2,000 miles away. Luckily my poor language skills means to follow conversations I need to listen closely - if it is background conversations - goes in one ear and out the other - my radar is tuned to listening for "gringo" when I hear that then I pay attention. Horseshit, if you choose to roll around in the dirt and let the dogs piss on you that's your choice, I don't sleep with dogs. Colombia like any of the 24 countries I have worked and lived in is a matter of CHOICE who you associate with, I can see that you have reached your lifelong goal of reaching mediocrity.
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Post by suba on Jul 24, 2016 13:34:51 GMT -5
Bill. I thought the Nazis were very well organised, does that make me one of them? To put it in simpler terms, (not because I think you can't comprehend the meaning but rather that you choose not to) just because someone expresses an opinion, or in this case a fact, does not mean they themselves exhibit the same characteristics, nor do they necessarily hold the same opinions.
I suspect that deep down you know that you have not married into the only perfect family in Colombia.
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Post by billforce on Jul 24, 2016 15:06:23 GMT -5
Bill. I thought the Nazis were very well organised, does that make me one of them? To put it in simpler terms, (not because I think you can't comprehend the meaning but rather that you choose not to) just because someone expresses an opinion, or in this case a fact, does not mean they themselves exhibit the same characteristics, nor do they necessarily hold the same opinions. I suspect that deep down you know that you have not married into the only perfect family in Colombia. Hardly, I'm simply particular who I associate with.
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Post by suba on Jul 24, 2016 15:36:57 GMT -5
Pity they aren't.
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Post by búfalo on Jul 24, 2016 16:42:47 GMT -5
Second Suba's comment.
So Billforce, you are telling us that you CHOSE to associate with each individual family member of your wive's before marrying into the family? If not, and it is all amazing as you say, then you got lucky.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2016 19:47:59 GMT -5
Second Suba's comment. So Billforce, you are telling us that you CHOSE to associate with each individual family member of your wive's before marrying into the family? If not, and it is all amazing as you say, then you got lucky. It's hard enough to know everything about the people we live with and have intimate relationships with, just ask anyone who has been divorced. So Bill must have super powers to be able to do this with each member of a large family. I think he should start a physic hotline. Call 1 800 ESP-BILL..
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Post by dandl93 on Jul 24, 2016 20:04:53 GMT -5
When a expats only knowledge comes from his Colombian wife on any thing, what she tells him has to be true.
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