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Post by suba on May 20, 2016 23:27:22 GMT -5
Is that really an excuse?
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Post by fishhead on May 20, 2016 23:39:59 GMT -5
I'm really ambivalent about that one...the argument seems a bit self-serving. OTOH, if you look at it from a purely economic point of view, it's supply and demand. Without demand, there wouldn't be any supply.
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Post by gallito on May 20, 2016 23:42:04 GMT -5
The Colombians who sell it argue it is.The old line is "sin comprador no hay negocio" without a buyer there won't be a biz.
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Post by makopp5 on May 21, 2016 6:50:23 GMT -5
They can produce tons of drugs, if there is no buyer, they will stop producing, because they can not cover the costs of production, so it will stop.
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Post by jafo19d on May 21, 2016 7:35:14 GMT -5
It's a no brainer. You can't force people to buy a product
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Post by búfalo on May 21, 2016 7:44:45 GMT -5
I'm back and forth on this one. I fully understand buyer/seller, etc. and agree. But it is something that one knows to do major damage. It's addictable amd people start young, by the time it's a problem it usually is too late. Taking advantage of that is just wrong for me.
Kind of like taking advantage of 12 year old kid, besides now being scarred for life she also ends up pregnant, never gets ahead, etc., etc. But what are you going to say, "Hey, I didn't force her, she wanted it." Which may be true, but still makes you a piece of shit.
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Post by scumbuster on May 21, 2016 7:45:16 GMT -5
It's a no brainer. You can't force people to buy a product Unless its the government mandating you buy Obabacare.
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Post by scumbuster on May 21, 2016 7:52:04 GMT -5
I'm back and forth on this one. I fully understand buyer/seller, etc. and agree. But it is something that one knows to do major damage. It's addictable amd people start young, by the time it's a problem it usually is too late. Taking advantage of that is just wrong for me. Kind of like taking advantage of 12 year old kid, besides now being scarred for life she also ends up pregnant, never gets ahead, etc., etc. But what are you going to say, "Hey, I didn't force her, she wanted it." Which may be true, but still makes you a piece of shit. I don't know that legalizing with no restrictions would ever happen. I see a system similar to Colorado for some drugs and maybe tighter controls on harder drugs like Heroin. The ones we know are dangerous might have special dispensaries where its dosed safely and a controlled environment, rather than buying off a shady guy in a dark alley and knot knowing what your really getting. Your never going to see it legal for 12 yr old kids to buy this way.
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Post by dandl93 on May 21, 2016 7:58:13 GMT -5
Would it not be cheaper to treat the addicts then the crime and deaths due to illegal drugs?
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Post by suba on May 21, 2016 9:07:51 GMT -5
I don't see how anyone can hide behind the " there's a market and I'm just supplying to meet the demand" argument especially when the product does nothing but create addiction and destroy lives.
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Post by scumbuster on May 21, 2016 9:15:29 GMT -5
Its a persons choice, not the governments. Its very arbitrary what drugs are legal and which ones are illegal. Tabaco and Alcohol are prime examples. Both are many times more dangerous and more addictive than marijuana or even cocaine. But the government says one is ok and another is not. It probably comes down to no big corporations wanting to sell them.
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Post by suba on May 21, 2016 9:57:31 GMT -5
The innocents killed (tens of thousands every year) are not making any choices. They just happen to be in the cross hairs of the addicts or dealers. Make it all legal by all means, but in the meantime claiming that the dead bodies piling up are only bad guys is just not true.
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Post by dandl93 on May 21, 2016 10:08:22 GMT -5
Suba to a point I agree with you.The innocent in Colombia (Non Narcos) are not all that innocent when it comes to worshipping the Narcos. Look at the Music or Novellas etc etc, how much money is made producing them the same goes in all other Narco Counties.
This goes to the Migrants from Mexico,Syria,Cuba etc etc Why dont they stay in their Country and fix the problems not illegally migrate and be a burden on other Countries?
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Post by billyb on May 21, 2016 11:13:01 GMT -5
Supply for coke is fungible, as long as there is demand there will be supply. A few years ago when eradication about halved the Colombian coke production, it just doubled in Peru and Bolivia, with no price increases in the consuming countries. I would just legalize it, remove the profit out of it for the bad guys, and then with the money saved not fighting this losing war, and with whatever taxation, start to deal with social, addiction and medical problems caused on the consumption side.
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Post by gallito on May 21, 2016 11:40:57 GMT -5
U.S drug policies stand in the way of drug legalizations;bureaucrats and DEA would be out of a job.The same goes for the countries that produce them;without a cause there would be no extra money to fill the coffers.
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Post by makopp5 on May 21, 2016 12:02:10 GMT -5
U.S drug policies stand in the way of drug legalizations;bureaucrats and DEA would be out of a job.The same goes for the countries that produce them;without a cause there would be no extra money to fill the coffers. They can do prevention and educate, help the addict etc. And all the countries can get taxes so the debts are going down.
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Post by billyb on May 21, 2016 21:17:43 GMT -5
Exactly, and just because it's not a panacea, doesn't mean something different should not be tried.
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Post by scumbuster on May 22, 2016 7:00:56 GMT -5
I think that's it exactly billyb. You cant say I will not change things, because there are still problems with it if we change it. Its to improve the situation. Its never going to be perfect. There is no way it will cost more than it does now. Now a punishment for a petty possession "crime" will ruin your life. There is no way people deserve to be sitting in a cage for possession of drugs. If someone uses drugs the only one they hurt is them selves and you compound that by putting them in a cage? Makes no sense to me. This must be the "Compassionate Conservatism" Bush talked about.
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Post by ozgringo on May 22, 2016 7:58:20 GMT -5
What would the world think of Colombia if there were no drugs? No Pablo Escobar? No cocaine? No narcos?
I wonder.
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Post by billyb on May 22, 2016 11:14:34 GMT -5
15 years ago, it would have meant only 10 poeple outside Colombia would have heard of it. Now, that I think it has overcome those images to a certain degree in the outside world, I would say that maybe 1000 people will have heard of it, ☺
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Post by gallito on May 22, 2016 12:11:20 GMT -5
What would the world think of Colombia if there were no drugs? No Pablo Escobar? No cocaine? No narcos? I wonder. Come on cheap drugs have drawn travelers to Colombia since the late Sixties;Hippies reaching for a higher high in places like Santa Marta and Taganga.It was a way of life for some to make a quick buck;flying weed into the States until Nixon and DEA got in the way.Now ayauasca is the latest craze.Just think if Colombia would have went the way of Holland and allowed soft drug cafes.
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Post by coolcoil on May 22, 2016 16:22:25 GMT -5
What would the world think of Colombia if there were no drugs? No Pablo Escobar? No cocaine? No narcos? I wonder. I would guess that it would think much the same as it currently does of Panama, Peru or Ecuador. This does not perfectly match your scenario, as they have drugs too, but they aren't the first things most people think of when they consider those countries. Another model, that probably would have been a better fit, is pre-Chavez Venezuela.
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Post by ozgringo on May 22, 2016 18:47:03 GMT -5
What would the world think of Colombia if there were no drugs? No Pablo Escobar? No cocaine? No narcos? I wonder. I would guess that it would think much the same as it currently does of Panama, Peru or Ecuador. This does not perfectly match your scenario, as they have drugs too, but they aren't the first things most people think of when they consider those countries. Another model, that probably would have been a better fit, is pre-Chavez Venezuela. I should of phrased it..What would the world think of Colombia if it wasn't such a large drug producer? It is sad that drugs are the first thing people think of when they think of Colombia and Colombian's.
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Post by gallito on May 22, 2016 18:56:03 GMT -5
Cultural exchanges weren't high on the list in the 70's
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