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Post by livinginmedellin on May 17, 2016 15:32:46 GMT -5
As thousands of millennials line up for Vermont Sen. Bernard Sanders rallies, believing that socialism is America’s best path forward, the United Socialist Party of Venezuela, ushered in by the late Hugo Chavez, is jailing its citizens for hoarding toilet paper. Mr. Chavez promised the people of Venezuela “21st-century socialism,” which would redistribute the country’s wealth to the poor and produce a better standard of living for all. It’s failed miserably. According to a report in the Atlantic: “In the last two years Venezuela has experienced the kind of implosion that hardly ever occurs in a middle-income country like it outside of war. Mortality rates are skyrocketing; one public service after another is collapsing; triple-digit inflation has left more than 70 percent of the population in poverty; an unmanageable crime wave keeps people locked indoors at night; shoppers have to stand in line for hours to buy food; babies die in large numbers for lack of simple, inexpensive medicines and equipment in hospitals, as do the elderly and those suffering from chronic illnesses.” Not to mention there’s a shortage of toilet paper. On Wednesday, protesters flooded the streets in Caracas to demand a referendum to recall President Nicolas Maduro — who was handpicked by the late Mr. Chavez to continue his legacy — from office. Yet millennials in the U.S. are increasingly thinking socialism is the best route for America. A Harvard University survey released last month said 51 percent of respondents ages 18 to 29 said they don’t support capitalism. Millennials are the only age group in America in which a majority views socialism favorably, the Washington Post reports. Exit polls reveal about 70 to 80 percent of young Democrats are voting for Mr. Sanders, a self-identified Democratic socialist, and Sanders campaign signs litter college campuses nationwide. When asked what socialism means to these youth, most give Scandinavia as an example, where expanded social welfare programs exist. Yet none of the Scandinavian states actually identify as socialist. After Mr. Sanders said a debate with Hillary Clinton that Denmark was a socialist country, Danish Prime Minister Lars Lokke Rasmussen countered, noting his country “is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy.” Venezuela is the better example. And things there are bleak. The government, trying to keep goods affordable for the poor, issued price controls that were set below production costs, which led to shortages. Government officials have become corrupt, stealing from the countries assets and mismanaging its money. Although Venezuela sits on top of mountainous oil reserves, its people can’t turn on their lights. The country is facing an electricity shortage so severe that Mr. Maduro made the decision to cut power for four hours a day for 40 days to save energy. This is what socialism really looks like. Millennials should take note. See: www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/may/12/us-millennials-craving-socialism-should-look-venez/
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Post by scumbuster on May 17, 2016 17:32:46 GMT -5
Anyone voting for Sanders should be required to spend 6 months living in Venezuela. Maybe they will like it so much they will not come back.
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Post by billyb on May 17, 2016 18:35:42 GMT -5
All this hate speech. I need to go to my "safe space".
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Post by fishhead on May 17, 2016 18:51:09 GMT -5
Geeze, everything that has the word 'social' in it is automatically socialism of the worst kind for you guys - I'm surprised you don't send back your social security checks (btw if you don't want them I'll take them ). I don't know whether Sanders ever used Venezuela as an example for anything positive (I doubt it very much) but he talks a lot about Denmark and other Scandinavian countries as an example of what he is trying to achieve. Those are social democracies and if you send any Sanders supporters over there for 6 months I guarantee you 99% will come back more convinced than ever. In the 1920s in Germany social democrats and socialists killed each other over this stuff, Stalin purged social democrats wherever he could find them. But for you guys it's all the same. Must be nice if things are always so simple.
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Post by billyb on May 17, 2016 18:58:35 GMT -5
I just hope there is still social security when i retire. They've taken enough.
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Post by scumbuster on May 17, 2016 20:02:01 GMT -5
hahaha... Sure billyb. I am only 59 and I figure if I want any I need to retire at 62. And if Hillary wins we may be bankrupt before then.
Sanders is a self described Socialist. We didn't put those words in his mouth. Venezuela is a prime example of a socialist country and what that does to a thriving economy. The Scandinavian countries have even balked at Sanders saying there Socialist, however if your happy working for the government rather than yourself that's the places to be.
I am on the verge of being an anarchist. The less government you have the better off you are. All government does is screw things up and waste money. Government is like that charity that has 2% of the money going to the intended program.
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Post by billyb on May 17, 2016 20:12:25 GMT -5
Thing is, whatever they call themselves, governments never create wealth, they only redistribute it. And when they do take (or attempt to) over the means of production, you get Cuba, N Korea and Venezuela. Welcome to "21st Century Socialism". BTW, Bernie had his honeymoon in Cuba, why not Denmark? Also, in a preview to what Berninomics would bring to the US, just know that Burlinton College, in Vermont, where Bernie's wife is President, announced it will close down after this semester due to insolvency (shocker). That's what happens when you have to pay the piper after the party is over. Ask "Socialist" Greece how that works. Or better yet, ask the hard working Germans, who are the ones paying for Greece's 30 year drunken orgy, how they feel about maintaining somebody else's lifestyle.
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Post by gallito on May 17, 2016 20:53:58 GMT -5
I had a walkin ER visit(Canada)last week;in the next 4 hrs I had a battery of tests;blood work,x ray , cat scan and specialist opinion.I left without a bill;the Americans next to me weren't as fortunate.In addition to health care for all,Canadians have a longer life expectancy,a much lower national debt,and when Canadians want to change their government,they vote rather than making threatening phone calls to member of parliament.
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Post by billyb on May 17, 2016 21:13:52 GMT -5
How long do you have to wait for the Canadian government to approve an operation? Do you have an idea?
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Post by scumbuster on May 17, 2016 21:14:36 GMT -5
Its not free. Free health care is the biggest lie there is. At least the free market try's to find efficiencies because they have a bottom line. If its government run, its wasteful and costing double what it should. Just someone else is paying for it. Like free college, free housing. Let me know how that's done. The only reason Canadians live longer is the obesity problem in the states. If Americans had to wade through waste deep snow 8 months of the year they would be in better shape. We would probably have a higher life expectancy.
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Post by billyb on May 17, 2016 21:18:49 GMT -5
I was in Canada and went into a cigar shop to buy some cubans (legal). They were asking twice as much as i paid contraband in the States. When i asked the shopkeeper why that was, he said TAXES. So Gallito, it ain't NEVER free, you pay through your arse for it in taxes one way or another. But as long as you believe them, that's all that matters.
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Post by gallito on May 17, 2016 21:37:09 GMT -5
How long do you have to wait for the Canadian government to approve an operation? Do you have an idea? ...don't you know like any good socialist government they study it to death...besides who said anything about surgery! As usual you only read what you want. "I was in Canada and went into a cigar shop to buy some cubans (legal). They were asking twice as much as i paid contraband in the States." Big spender;you should have saved your cigar money for Cuba,you do have a Colombian passport. When i asked the shopkeeper why that was, he said TAXES. So Gallito, it ain't NEVER free, you pay through your arse for it in taxes one way or another. But as long as you believe them, that's all that matters. "Contraband" assumedly if you smoked weed you would prefer to buy it from a legal pot shop! lmao
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Post by gallito on May 17, 2016 21:49:58 GMT -5
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Post by fishhead on May 17, 2016 21:58:48 GMT -5
Thing is, whatever they call themselves, governments never create wealth, they only redistribute it. And when they do take (or attempt to) over the means of production, you get Cuba, N Korea and Venezuela. Welcome to "21st Century Socialism". BTW, Bernie had his honeymoon in Cuba, why not Denmark? Also, in a preview to what Berninomics would bring to the US, just know that Burlinton College, in Vermont, where Bernie's wife is President, announced it will close down after this semester due to insolvency (shocker). That's what happens when you have to pay the piper after the party is over. Ask "Socialist" Greece how that works. Or better yet, ask the hard working Germans, who are the ones paying for Greece's 30 year drunken orgy, how they feel about maintaining somebody else's lifestyle. What the Greeks did had nothing at all to do with socialism, that was quite the opposite: everybody took what he could get and the hell with the consequences and the rest of society. Successive Greek governments then cooked the books to get more foreign credit - that's fraud, not socialism. That's actually something very capitalistic. The end result is that the fat cats got away because they were able to get their money out of the country in time and the little guys are now broke, out of work and out of healthcare.
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Post by billyb on May 17, 2016 22:04:58 GMT -5
Supporting them just like Kennedy did right before he declared the embargo.
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Post by billyb on May 17, 2016 22:12:33 GMT -5
What the Greeks did had nothing at all to do with socialism, that was quite the opposite: everybody took what he could get and the hell with the consequences and the rest of society. Successive Greek governments then cooked the books to get more foreign credit - that's fraud, not socialism. That's actually something very capitalistic. The end result is that the fat cats got away because they were able to get their money out of the country in time and the little guys are now broke, out of work and out of healthcare. People getting paid and not working is socialism. Nothing that went on in Greece has anythingvto do with Capitalism. They don't even have any industry except tourism and a couple hundred bottles of olive oil a year.They just played the rest of the Euros for suckers, and had them subsidize a 35 hour work week, 8 weeks vacation a year, and retirement at 55. Sounds like classic socialism to me. A great gig if you can find suckers to finance it. How do I sign up?
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Post by caliconnection on May 17, 2016 23:05:56 GMT -5
How long do you have to wait for the Canadian government to approve an operation? Do you have an idea? No one knows. They usually die before they get the operation. The previous government did away with the parent sponsorship bullshit, but now the new government wants to bring it back. Just what we need - a bunch of elderly people from countries who haven't paid a dime into our medical system.
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Post by fishhead on May 18, 2016 0:17:16 GMT -5
People getting paid and not working is socialism. Nothing that went on in Greece has anythingvto do with Capitalism. They don't even have any industry except tourism and a couple hundred bottles of olive oil a year.They just played the rest of the Euros for suckers, and had them subsidize a 35 hour work week, 8 weeks vacation a year, and retirement at 55. Sounds like classic socialism to me. A great gig if you can find suckers to finance it. How do I sign up? Getting paid and not working - that's a checkout lane in any Colombian supermarket. Seriously, if you throw around your definitions like that then anything you don't like becomes socialism. Greece was a fraudulent, corrupt system that everybody who was able to played until it broke down. The people who are stuck with the bill now are the poor suckers - the fat cats made off. How is that socialism? Classic case of too little regulation and oversight.
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Post by billyb on May 18, 2016 4:57:51 GMT -5
Classic Socialism, the Greek government giving away too many benefits it couldn't to pay for. It was all great until they ran out of other people's money. Actually, in their case, they suckered their fellow Euros to pony up for them, what, 3 times now. The fact that the government, and their society as a whole, was crooked and cooked the books, doesn't make them any less socialist. In fact, it just confirms it.
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Post by scumbuster on May 18, 2016 6:18:05 GMT -5
The fact that the government, and their society as a whole, was crooked and cooked the books, doesn't make them any less socialist. In fact, it just confirms it. That is the classic Socialist government. Just like Venezuela. Socialist believe everyone should be equally poor other than the ones in Government that can skim the most off the top. When it all comes crashing down the leaders never seem to be poor. Only the general population. "Power Corrupts and Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely" Never is this more true than in a socialist country.
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Post by scumbuster on May 18, 2016 7:37:21 GMT -5
BTW.. Its not necessary to be a to be a socialist country to fall to socialism. A few very expensive socialist programs can bring down the strongest capitalist country. What do you think totally free college and health care would do to a country with 21T in debt along with 100+ of trillion in unfunded liabilities. we are already past the point we could ever hope to pay off the debt without destroying the economy by printing trillions more in money. And the reason college is already so high is because of government subsidies. The more in subsidies the government supplies the higher the cost of college tuition goes. If the government totally stopped all college funding you would see a drastic cut in tuition costs because there classes would only be 1/2 full. When the government gets involves the supply and demand model no longer works.
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Post by billyb on May 18, 2016 8:29:18 GMT -5
The Sanders family ran a two bit college into the ground, and now they want to run the largest economy on earth? Gimme a break.
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Post by gallito on May 18, 2016 10:11:42 GMT -5
Those of you who took the time to meet me;know I'm not a bleeding socialists.It's all about quality of life and the right to decent medical attention.Sure an ideal country would be a place where everyone pays their way and no one is better than the other.
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Post by dandl93 on May 18, 2016 11:07:23 GMT -5
The only Rite a person has once they are born, Is too Die. In between that time is what you make it.
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Post by gallito on May 18, 2016 11:11:23 GMT -5
None of our countries are the same as they used to be and the reality is living isn't getting any cheaper.You can't escape that by moving to Colombia;the tax man will eventually come knocking.
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Post by scumbuster on May 18, 2016 11:23:54 GMT -5
None of our countries are the same as they used to be and the reality is living isn't getting any cheaper.You can't escape that by moving to Colombia;the tax man will eventually come knocking. If you plan properly you should be able to eliminate most taxes after you retire. I can certainly live much cheaper in Colombia than in the US. My goal is to only be taxed once in the US and withdraw at a low enough rate that even that is minimal. There is no tax on the first 20K you earn or take out of a retirement account in the US. I didn't spend that when I was living in Colombia full time.
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Post by gallito on May 18, 2016 11:33:11 GMT -5
In principle that would work but Colombia keeps changing its tax structure;they appear to be shunning retirees from other countries. Colombia isn't actually not that cheap to retire if you want to live the same quality of life as you would back home.Living in a little town on a marginal income isn't my idea of the perfect utopia.I need a little dose of city life to keep me sane.I'll stick to my present plan;stay close to my family and spend a few winter months down south.
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Post by scumbuster on May 18, 2016 11:41:34 GMT -5
Yes. The changing tax laws have made me reconsider my long term living arrangements in Colombia. You just have to be flexible. If it means spending 1/2 the year in another country then I will do it. It will be less of a challenge once my house is sold. I will just live off my debit card like Elex suggested. If you don't have any assets there what can they do? My living in Colombia full time benefits Colombia by having me spend all my money there. If they make it too expensive I can spend my money elsewhere.
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Post by dandl93 on May 18, 2016 11:57:09 GMT -5
In principle that would work but Colombia keeps changing its tax structure;they appear to be shunning retirees from other countries. Colombia isn't actually not that cheap to retire if you want to live the same quality of life as you would back home.Living in a little town on a marginal income isn't my idea of the perfect utopia.I need a little dose of city life to keep me sane.I'll stick to my present plan;stay close to my family and spend a few winter months down south. Getting a dose of a big city is like getting a dose of the clap you dont need or want it all that much.I went to Bogota on monday I dont need another dose for 6 months or more. I will stick to my small town living and know alot of people that would like my utopia.
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Post by fishhead on May 18, 2016 11:58:17 GMT -5
The only Rite a person has once they are born, Is too Die. In between that time is what you make it. Really? Ever heard of the 'Bill of Rights'? Contains the 2nd amendment, btw.
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