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Post by ozgringo on May 16, 2016 19:41:53 GMT -5
Has anyone had to formally evicted a tenant in Colombia? By formally I mean go through the legal channels of having the tenant removed.
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Post by livinginmedellin on May 16, 2016 20:38:45 GMT -5
I talked to an expat in Medellín last year that had to do this and he said it took over a year as the civil courts are so backlogged. I suspect the time varies by city and also possibly by how much $$ is used to grease the wheels.
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Post by billforce on May 17, 2016 0:16:49 GMT -5
My father-in-law took 2 years to evict a tenant in a Bogota apartment, he just recently got it cleared to re-rent, sell or what have you. The tenant kept raising non-existent issues like testimony from the Portero etc. Nothing was ever proven except the tenant didn't pay rent and refused to move. Rental claims in Colombia are indeed a joke.
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Post by scumbuster on May 17, 2016 5:43:16 GMT -5
Keep us posted. Would like to know how it works out. I not quite sure how it works but I heard in Bogota there are realtors that guarantee rents if the tenant quits making payments or of they move out before the end of the lease. Maybe someone can update us on how that works.
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Post by ozgringo on May 17, 2016 6:58:12 GMT -5
Rented a house in Cartagena to a husband and wife with three kids. 6 month rolling contract. The first 6 month contract, good tenants. Then the husband lost his job. We gave a little leeway. Now, they owe around $4 million COP in backdated rent. They have been paying drips and dabs, promising to pay what they owe, always breaking promises. Sob story after sob story. They, the tenants received a letter from our lawyer requesting that they move out. (Beginning of this month, move out.). When they didn't move out, they agreed (with our lawyer) to pay us a months rent on the 15th of this month. Of course, they did not pay anything on the 15th. It's all a bit of a joke. My lawyer recommends as the legal process is such a joke to basically apply as much pressure on them as possible until they move out. Personally, I just want to see the back of them and know there is absolutely no chance we will recover what money is owed. Now around $5.5 million COP. It is difficult as I am on the other side of the world. Will keep you posted.
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Post by livinginmedellin on May 17, 2016 7:04:51 GMT -5
This issue of evicting deadbeat tenants taking so much time is why many property owners in Colombia like renting via real estate agents and why the agents require fiadors (cosigners with property).
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Post by ozgringo on May 17, 2016 7:12:32 GMT -5
We have a fiador. Sorry our tenant has. My wife asked our lawyer to go after the fiador. Unfortunately our lawyer just laughed.
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Post by pilotguy68 on May 17, 2016 7:13:23 GMT -5
Ten years ago, my first entry into real estate. I bought a big house, two story, actually two separate houses, separate legally. Upstairs had tenants, I tried to ease them out with 90 day notice. They used this notice and stopped paying anything immediately. I got some good advice, although it irritated me at the time. My friend said: Pay them 6 months rent value in pesos the day they leave. They left within 3 days. Here, kindness is weakness and stupidity. Problem solved, I remodeled, sold and moved on. Joe
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Post by elexpatriado on May 17, 2016 7:15:45 GMT -5
We have a fiador. Sorry our tenant has. My wife asked our lawyer to go after the fiador. Unfortunately our lawyer just laughed. How come all the people I know who were Fiadores in similar situations get sued and have thier houses or income "embargoed"
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Post by ozgringo on May 17, 2016 7:19:59 GMT -5
We have a fiador. Sorry our tenant has. My wife asked our lawyer to go after the fiador. Unfortunately our lawyer just laughed. How come all the people I know who were Fiadores in similar situations get sued and have thier houses or income "embargoed" I will ask my lawyer that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2016 8:19:15 GMT -5
Keep us posted. Would like to know how it works out. I not quite sure how it works but I heard in Bogota there are realtors that guarantee rents if the tenant quits making payments or of they move out before the end of the lease. Maybe someone can update us on how that works. If you retain an agency to administer the apartment for you, they will rake in 10% of the monthly rent, but will handle any issues that come up. That includes collecting the rent. The owner of the property will continue to get paid if the tenant is delinquent, and the responsibility for going after the deliquent rests with the agency.
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Post by billyb on May 17, 2016 9:41:36 GMT -5
The problem is that in many cases the lawyer and legal fees will be more than the rent owed. In most cases renters will treat the rent in arrears as money lost and only want to get the deadbeats out.
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Post by scumbuster on May 17, 2016 11:33:11 GMT -5
Ten years ago, my first entry into real estate. I bought a big house, two story, actually two separate houses, separate legally. Upstairs had tenants, I tried to ease them out with 90 day notice. They used this notice and stopped paying anything immediately. I got some good advice, although it irritated me at the time. My friend said: Pay them 6 months rent value in pesos the day they leave. They left within 3 days. Here, kindness is weakness and stupidity. Problem solved, I remodeled, sold and moved on. Joe Its unfortunate but this may be the best solution to mitigate your loss.
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Post by gallito on May 17, 2016 11:50:25 GMT -5
If you need a lawyer you're throwing good money at bad...they'll milk it for everything it's worth.Cut your loses and move on.
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albym
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Post by albym on May 17, 2016 12:03:43 GMT -5
I've had rental apts. both here in Colombia and in Panama. I have definitely taken my share of hits and learned a lot of lessons. My one bit of advice that has always worked for me: Try to offer your apt. for rent to an international school or company that recruits western expat workers. You might make a little less on monthly income (they bargain pretty hard) but you always get paid and expats tend to take better care of the apartment overall. At least that has been my experience.
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Post by billforce on May 17, 2016 12:40:40 GMT -5
I've had rental apts. both here in Colombia and in Panama. I have definitely taken my share of hits and learned a lot of lessons. My one bit of advice that has always worked for me: Try to offer your apt. for rent to an international school or company that recruits western expat workers. You might make a little less on monthly income (they bargain pretty hard) but you always get paid and expats tend to take better care of the apartment overall. At least that has been my experience. Ideal scenario but with the current business climate at least in Medellin you might have a long beard waiting for this to happen. With the current "state of the economy" in Colombia (thank you Santos) there are very few new companies seeking investments in Colombia, maybe the 84% total tax rate has something to do with that? There was a time in Medellin when companies were paying rent in advance for several years but hard to find now. "Trickle down economics", when the country is healthy then businesses follow, when the country is in trouble Internationally you have Venezuela, Brazil and Argentina. Legal contracts in Colombia are a waste of money, time and effort, you may as well write them on a roll of azzwipe.
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Post by elexpatriado on May 17, 2016 13:30:28 GMT -5
If you need a lawyer you're throwing good money at bad...they'll milk it for everything it's worth.Cut your loses and move on. It doesnt take much to put a "Demanda" and threat of an embargo on the Fiajador´s property. Going to court is the big thing, but if the contract is a good one, the judge will make the fiajador pay the legal expenses. But a gringo who is not used to it without a lawyer very experienced in this case and willing to go through the process, it is probably too much of a hassle. And their is no guarantee the judge will side with you, unless it is a leak tight contract the co-signer signed.
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Post by livinginmedellin on May 17, 2016 13:55:36 GMT -5
Keep us posted. Would like to know how it works out. I not quite sure how it works but I heard in Bogota there are realtors that guarantee rents if the tenant quits making payments or of they move out before the end of the lease. Maybe someone can update us on how that works. If you retain an agency to administer the apartment for you, they will rake in 10% of the monthly rent, but will handle any issues that come up. That includes collecting the rent. The owner of the property will continue to get paid if the tenant is delinquent, and the responsibility for going after the delinquent rests with the agency. Yes but some agencies are not honest. For example I rented from a real estate agency and paid rent to the agency but after four years the agency stopped paying the owner as the agency ran into financial difficulties. Also keep in mind there are no licensing requirements to become a real estate agent. I now only plan to rent directly with owners, which permits me to negotiate a lower price since the owner doesn't have to pay a commission to the agency.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2016 14:47:54 GMT -5
If you retain an agency to administer the apartment for you, they will rake in 10% of the monthly rent, but will handle any issues that come up. That includes collecting the rent. The owner of the property will continue to get paid if the tenant is delinquent, and the responsibility for going after the delinquent rests with the agency. Yes but some agencies are not honest. For example I rented from a real estate agency and paid rent to the agency but after four years the agency stopped paying the owner as the agency ran into financial difficulties. Also keep in mind there are no licensing requirements to become a real estate agent. I now only plan to rent directly with owners, which permits me to negotiate a lower price since the owner doesn't have to pay a commission to the agency. There are no guarantees in life... especially in Colombia. If there was ever a country that exemplies the words, "Caveat Emptor," it is Colombia. My wife and I are having this discussion right now over a rental property we own in Belen. Our tenant just gave us notice that they will be vacating the apartment. She happened to be a sibling of a good friend in the States. In her case, we used the local realtor to do the credit check and obtain fiduciaries, but, we self-managed the property. She's been a good tenant, paid on time, no damage, etc. We've been fortunate. But everytime there was a leak or a broken door, my wife would feel compelled to jump in the car and drive into the dreaded pits of Medellin (almost 2 hours from where we live), and handle it. I told my wife that every trip into Medellin has a value of COP$ 150,000 to me. This amount includes not only gas, tolls and wear and tear on the car, but our time and "wear and tear" on us. So rather than schlepping from El Oriente (with our own workers from Rionegro) everytime something is broke or needs repairs, let someone else worry about it... even if it means we may end up paying a little more. So, for the next renter, I want to use the agency to do the whole 9 yards. For an added expense of 90 - 95,000 pesos per month, "es vale la pena."
Sorry you found a bad realtor, there are certainly a number of them out there. That's why it's important to carefully screen who you will be using. It helps to have a street-wise paisa wife with contacts in real estate. The agency we used to screen our tenants has a proven track record... and if I have my way, we'll be using them to manage our place in Belen.
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Post by ozgringo on May 17, 2016 17:21:13 GMT -5
If you need a lawyer you're throwing good money at bad...they'll milk it for everything it's worth.Cut your loses and move on. It doesnt take much to put a "Demanda" and threat of an embargo on the Fiajador´s property. Going to court is the big thing, but if the contract is a good one, the judge will make the fiajador pay the legal expenses. But a gringo who is not used to it without a lawyer very experienced in this case and willing to go through the process, it is probably too much of a hassle. And their is no guarantee the judge will side with you, unless it is a leak tight contract the co-signer signed. I will investigate going after the fijador. The contract was drafted by a lawyer. Everything I know is basically second hand information as my Spanish is at the level of a third grader. My wife is handling everything with her parents in Cartagena over the phone from Sydney. My wife and her parents are irrationally embarrassed about the situation. Some how it is a representation, reflection of all things Colombia. I think next time I will use an agency as apposed to using family members to look after the property.
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Post by scumbuster on May 17, 2016 17:57:32 GMT -5
@vago For an added expense of 90 - 95,000 pesos per month.
That's not much more than $30 USD a month to be hassle free. Well worth it in my book.
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Post by búfalo on May 17, 2016 18:19:55 GMT -5
Insecond SB. That's the reason I'd never be a fiador, all tje ones I knew got screwed.
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Post by billyb on May 17, 2016 18:42:26 GMT -5
When we first moved to the US, we rented our house in Cali to lifelong neighbors (next door), and when my parents moved back after a few years, they took the house back, but it seemed that the tenants had knocked out about 4 entry way connections between our houses. Basically making it one huge house. Luckly they were rich, and while presumptious, they were not crooks, so they restored our house to original condition, and our families ate still friends.
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pedro
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Post by pedro on May 17, 2016 20:21:02 GMT -5
I've been through this in Cartagena. Although my case was somewhat different to yours.
In my case, the tenant racked up a debt and eventually moved out by mutual agreement. I had them on a furnished rental contract with no fiador.
We referred the case to a lawyer who took it on contingency (I was paying the cost of filing forms and preparing court documents as it worked its way through the courts).
It took maybe two years after they vacated, but finally we got paid a full settlement (including costs, interest etc).
Legally, your case should be a slam dunk. What will usually happen upfront is the lawyer will look over the solvency of the tenant and/or fiador. It's only worth winning a legal judgment when the other party can be leaned on to pay and they have the means to pay.
If you have documents provided by tenant and fiador at the time the lease was established, it should be easy to determine how solvent they are.
In some ways, it's better for the tenant to keep the arrears amount small so that the landlord will just want to walk away from it. If they let it build up, it becomes tempting for a lawyer to take the case and win it.
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Post by gallito on May 17, 2016 20:31:12 GMT -5
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Post by ozgringo on May 18, 2016 16:50:02 GMT -5
Thanks. The answers I was seeking were more to do with the process of actual eviction.
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Post by makopp5 on May 18, 2016 17:04:34 GMT -5
and if you change the locks, when he is not there?
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Post by gallito on May 18, 2016 17:07:21 GMT -5
oz, there are a few passages in the last link that may or may not apply to you. _______________________________________________________ How effective is the Colombian legal system? Tenancy law is enforced before the civil courts. Procedures are long and the courts are saturated with a huge backlog of cases. Brigard & Urrutia believes that to complete an eviction of a tenant might take perhaps three years, including 45 days for service, two years for trial duration, and a year for enforcement. But the eviction proceedings, though long, protect landlords because tenants are obliged to pay rent while the proceeding is being heard in court.
The eviction process is regulated by Law 820 of 2003 and procedural rules are found in the Colombian Code of Civil Procedure. The proceeding, called “Proceso de restitución de inmueble arrendado” is carried out through a summary procedure with the intervention of the tenant. However, if the complaint is based on failure to pay the rent, the tenant will not be heard unless he deposits the outstanding rents before the court. The tenant is entitled to reimbursement for the improvements and repairs made by him to the dwelling. The landlord can request the practice of precautionary measures, including seizure of tenant’s assets, to ensure payment of the rent or of any other economic obligation under the contract. Judgments in eviction proceedings based on failure to pay the rent cannot be appealed.
EVICTION FOR NON-PAYMENT OF RENT Duration until completion of service of process 139 Duration of trial 279 Duration of enforcement 82 Total Days to Evict Tenant 500 Courts: The Lex Mundi Project It is not necessary to exhaust a conciliation hearing before initiating an eviction process, which is required for most other civil actions.
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Post by ozgringo on May 18, 2016 17:22:03 GMT -5
Yes, I read that. 500 days on average to evict a tenant for non-payment of rent. Probably why our lawyer and my wife's parents (who have a few rentals themselves) recommend to just keep applying pressure on the tenants to move out.
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Post by livinginmedellin on May 18, 2016 17:28:06 GMT -5
oz, there are a few passages in the last link that may or may not apply to you. _______________________________________________________ How effective is the Colombian legal system? Tenancy law is enforced before the civil courts. Procedures are long and the courts are saturated with a huge backlog of cases. Brigard & Urrutia believes that to complete an eviction of a tenant might take perhaps three years, including 45 days for service, two years for trial duration, and a year for enforcement. But the eviction proceedings, though long, protect landlords because tenants are obliged to pay rent while the proceeding is being heard in court. The eviction process is regulated by Law 820 of 2003 and procedural rules are found in the Colombian Code of Civil Procedure. The proceeding, called “Proceso de restitución de inmueble arrendado” is carried out through a summary procedure with the intervention of the tenant. However, if the complaint is based on failure to pay the rent, the tenant will not be heard unless he deposits the outstanding rents before the court. The tenant is entitled to reimbursement for the improvements and repairs made by him to the dwelling. The landlord can request the practice of precautionary measures, including seizure of tenant’s assets, to ensure payment of the rent or of any other economic obligation under the contract. Judgments in eviction proceedings based on failure to pay the rent cannot be appealed. EVICTION FOR NON-PAYMENT OF RENT Duration until completion of service of process 139 Duration of trial 279 Duration of enforcement 82 Total Days to Evict Tenant 500 Courts: The Lex Mundi Project It is not necessary to exhaust a conciliation hearing before initiating an eviction process, which is required for most other civil actions. BUT that article ( www.globalpropertyguide.com/Latin-America/colombia/Landlord-and-Tenant) is dated from May 2006, ten years ago. It doesn't give an idea how long the current process takes, which I understand is different for each city. But you should be able to find out from a good lawyer.
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