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Post by barrumundi on Apr 28, 2016 11:04:05 GMT -5
Things are changing for the worker. Not only does the minimum wage increase each year but there has been gains in other benefits. Employers need to be fully aware of the rights of the workers because the workers certainly are aware and do not hesitate to get legal advice and make demands on errant employers whenever they get the opportunity. Monthly minimum legal wage The government issued the Decree 2552, 2015, on December 30, 2015, establishing the new legal monthly minimum wage from January 1st, 2016 in $689.455 Colombian pesos; which meant an increase by 7%. Additionally, through the Decree 2553, 2015 issued on December 30, 2015, the transport allowance was set for $77.700 Colombian pesos, which meant an increase by 5%. This allowance must be paid monthly with the employee´s salary, if he/she earns up to 2 legal monthly minimum wages, that are $1.378.910 Colombian pesos. The employer must provide the employee with labour footwear and clothes on April 30, August 31 and December, 20. Besides, the employer must comply with the payment of the bi annual premium, equivalent to 15 days of salary. The first payment must be done the last day of June and the second payment must be done within the first 20 days of December. The severance aid is equivalent to one monthly salary. It has to be deposited in the severance fund chosen by the employee and it must be paid no later than February 14, 2016. The interests over severance aid are equivalent to 12% of the severance aid and must be paid no later than 30 of January of 2016 directly to the employee. Moreover, the employee will be able to request, 15 labour days of vacations. The percentage of the contributions to social security and payroll taxes remain the same and must be calculated according to the monthly salary stablished for each employee in 2016. Finally, we recommend keeping in mind the stipulations made in the Decree 1072, 2015 which gathers part of the existing labour laws; the Decree 1443, 2014 regarding the policy on safety and health at work and the current disciplinary process. www.nortonrosefulbright.com/knowledge/publications/136260/colombia-increases-minimum-wage
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Post by barrumundi on Apr 28, 2016 11:12:34 GMT -5
Even a casual cook, cleaning lady, garden guy can set the legal eagles on you if they feel badly done by. They don't need to be a full-time or permanent employee ........and the longer they work for you ......the more chance there is going to be a problem down the track.
It doesn't even matter if they feel like 'part of the family' or you help them out in other ways .....if you don't give them everything that they know they are entitled to........watch out!
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Post by elexpatriado on Apr 28, 2016 14:10:26 GMT -5
So come on..you actually believe employers employing minimum wage workers are following these regulations' And when they dont, the employees are under taking legal action?
They can write all the laws they want, the employers will keep abusing the workers. And the employers will keep tolerating it, otherwise, they lose their job, get "Blacklisted" and find it hard finding other work...lots of others waiting to take their pace.
I imagine there are laws stating that employers cant sexually coerce workers to obtain or retain employment, but nobody follows those laws either.
You dont know how difficult it is to make a legal claim against an employer or entity in Colombia (A "demanda") unless you try it. And thats for an educated lawyer or expat. Think how almost impossible it is for an uneducated minimum wage Colombian worker.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 14:53:25 GMT -5
Even a casual cook, cleaning lady, garden guy can set the legal eagles on you if they feel badly done by. They don't need to be a full-time or permanent employee ........and the longer they work for you ......the more chance there is going to be a problem down the track. It doesn't even matter if they feel like 'part of the family' or you help them out in other ways .....if you don't give them everything that they know they are entitled to........watch out! good advice mr. mundi. we are getting ready to start paying into the pension system for our cleaning lady that comes once a week. a family we knew had a lady working for them for 15 years. she was part of the family and they even bought them a small house to help out. the lady died and the husband got an attorney and sued for 20 million in non-paid pension. he won and the family had to pay. these people may be stupid, but alot of them are still savvy enough to sue your ass + they all talk. these victory stories are like the lottery for these folks.
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Post by barrumundi on Apr 28, 2016 15:55:32 GMT -5
You dont know how difficult it is to make a legal claim against an employer or entity in Colombia (A "demanda") unless you try it. And thats for an educated lawyer or expat. Think how almost impossible it is for an uneducated minimum wage Colombian worker. On this one elexpatriado you are wrong. I have first hand experience. It is very, very easy for an uneducated minimum wage employee to make a legal claim against an employer here in Colombia. It recently cost my family 7, 1/2 Milliones to find this out. This is not Kansas where you had your Pizza Hut business and employed 20 pimple faced teenagers.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 16:28:51 GMT -5
In the end still much cheaper than supporting a wife--
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Post by billyb on Apr 28, 2016 18:58:13 GMT -5
You dont know how difficult it is to make a legal claim against an employer or entity in Colombia (A "demanda") unless you try it. And thats for an educated lawyer or expat. Think how almost impossible it is for an uneducated minimum wage Colombian worker. On this one elexpatriado you are wrong. I have first hand experience. It is very, very easy for an uneducated minimum wage employee to make a legal claim against an employer here in Colombia. It recently cost my family 7, 1/2 Milliones to find this out. WIL This is not Kansas where you had your Pizza Hut business and employed 20 pimple faced teenagers. Yup, from what I've heard, it is better to have all the legalities on the straight and narrow so it doesn't come back to bite you at a later date. The law is now coming down on the side of the employees, and while some ahole employers will still try to screw their workers, it is getting harder and more expensive for them to do so.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 18:58:59 GMT -5
you have to tolerate this type of crap here. a simple waiver of right to sue agreement would release employer from any liability arising from the employment or termination in the 1st world depending on the individual states employment laws. at the very least, part time employees would be considered contractors and not employees. these new 'laws' are too broad in scope and need to be amended to prevent abuse.
imagine that, poor people abusing the rich.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 18:59:43 GMT -5
On this one elexpatriado you are wrong. I have first hand experience. It is very, very easy for an uneducated minimum wage employee to make a legal claim against an employer here in Colombia. It recently cost my family 7, 1/2 Milliones to find this out. WIL This is not Kansas where you had your Pizza Hut business and employed 20 pimple faced teenagers. Yup, from what I've heard, it is better to have all the legalities on the straight and narrow so it doesn't come back to bite you at a later date. The law is now coming down on the side of the employees, and while some ahole employers will still try to screw their workers, it is getting harder and more expensive for them to do so. spoken like a true colombian. riddle me this batman - how does a worker that comes and cleans a house one time a week accumulate a true pension? answer - he or she cannot. it is simply a way to get more people paying into the pension system so that it can be stolen at a later date.
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Post by billyb on Apr 28, 2016 19:03:00 GMT -5
I'll take that as a compliment... I think
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Post by billyb on Apr 28, 2016 19:05:38 GMT -5
you have to tolerate this type of crap here. a simple waiver of right to sue agreement would release employer from any liability arising from the employment or termination in the 1st world depending on the individual states employment laws. at the very least, part time employees would be considered contractors and not employees. these new 'laws' are too broad in scope and need to be amended to prevent abuse. Would any agreement that is contrary to the law be enforcable after the fact? I'm not too sure about that.
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Post by gallito on Apr 28, 2016 19:10:19 GMT -5
Well,an employer could take an insurance policy out on their employee,if they die they can collect...Wally Mart does it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 19:15:45 GMT -5
you have to tolerate this type of crap here. a simple waiver of right to sue agreement would release employer from any liability arising from the employment or termination in the 1st world depending on the individual states employment laws. at the very least, part time employees would be considered contractors and not employees. these new 'laws' are too broad in scope and need to be amended to prevent abuse. Would any agreement that is contrary to the law be enforcable after the fact? I'm not too sure about that. contrary to what law? that is the thing. contracts mean shit in colombia. they are broken all the time with complete disregard. contract law in the 1st world is sacred. does it trump employment law(s)? here it seems as though the precedent has been set in favor of the worker. solution - either comply and pay into the scam pension system and be compliant with the 'law' or just use a different maid every 3-4 months. typical BS that creates a lose/lose situation for everybody involved. my lady should be able to waive her right for the worthless pension benefit in lieu of additional front end monies. if this is handled in a law office and she is represented by counsel, the contract law should trump the bogus employment law. if there is no additional benefit to the worker, then maybe the employment law should prevail. in the end, it should be the decision of the worker to decide. but, not in colombia...
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Post by billyb on Apr 28, 2016 19:24:56 GMT -5
It might be that for some people it might be better to be able to waive those rights, but the problem is that how does the law know they are doing it willingly, and not being coerced into doing do as condition to employment. I think the pendulum had swung in the direction of the employees because of centuries of abuse by the employers. Having said that, I do think some of the laws are sheer lunacy.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 19:32:28 GMT -5
It might be that for some people it might be better to be able to waive those rights, but the problem is that how does the law know they are doing it willingly, and not being coerced into doing do as condition to employment. I think the pendulum had swung in the direction of the employees because of centuries of abuse by the employers. Having said that, I do think some of the laws are sheer lunacy. "if this is handled in a law office and she is represented by counsel, the contract law should trump the bogus employment law."
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Post by elexpatriado on Apr 28, 2016 19:34:50 GMT -5
You dont know how difficult it is to make a legal claim against an employer or entity in Colombia (A "demanda") unless you try it. And thats for an educated lawyer or expat. Think how almost impossible it is for an uneducated minimum wage Colombian worker. On this one elexpatriado you are wrong. I have first hand experience. It is very, very easy for an uneducated minimum wage employee to make a legal claim against an employer here in Colombia. It recently cost my family 7, 1/2 Milliones to find this out. This is not Kansas where you had your Pizza Hut business and employed 20 pimple faced teenagers. Au contraire..in Kansas or Canada the worker rights are much stronger and much more readily enforceable. I have no idea what the details of that particular situation,but I believe your family obviously had significant tangible assets in Colombia, am I correct? Of course anyone with tangible assets , like a house, business, salary, car, bank account, all of which can be"embargoed", and people with these type of assets in Colombia always have the risk legally of someone launching some type of greivance against them. And the "complainee" did this all on their lonesome without any legal help? And if the complainee had a lawyer, how much was the lawyers "take" (My girl friend is a lawyer and defends these cases where poor people are getting ripped off.She has a good heart and often does it for free, but normal lawyers fees are at least 20%). And how much of his or her take actually went to the Judge? And how long did the court process take? Sure , cases like this, and that of "Whodat" are common, but for everyone of them, there are 10 other cases of the employer actually "abusing" the employees and getting away with it. My GFs son for instance, works part time as a cook , 8 hours a week on weekends, and they pay him 24,000 COP ,plus tips, and he gets no transportation allowance. He is happy to have the work while he is studying. I have talked to dozens of women who work in stores, cafes, restaurants, and they get the full minimum wage, but are not limited to 160 hours a week. End up working 180 or 200 without pay. How could this be legal? Same with many guys working construction. What about University students and thier "Practicum" who work for nothing (Granted, this may not be illegal) I know quite a few girls who work at the Spanish owned Call Centres in Manizales. The girls dont get paid the transportation allowance, becaus they are picked up by a Company bus. Is this legal? What about women that are forced to sleep with the boss to get a job or retain thier job: Is this legal? How come these slimy low-life bastards keep doing it? They have a long way to go with workers rights in Colombia.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 19:35:01 GMT -5
It might be that for some people it might be better to be able to waive those rights, but the problem is that how does the law know they are doing it willingly, and not being coerced into doing do as condition to employment. I think the pendulum had swung in the direction of the employees because of centuries of abuse by the employers. Having said that, I do think some of the laws are sheer lunacy. i disagree. it is a bureaucratic scam by politicians.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 19:37:46 GMT -5
On this one elexpatriado you are wrong. I have first hand experience. It is very, very easy for an uneducated minimum wage employee to make a legal claim against an employer here in Colombia. It recently cost my family 7, 1/2 Milliones to find this out. This is not Kansas where you had your Pizza Hut business and employed 20 pimple faced teenagers. Au contraire..in Kansas or Canada the worker rights are much stronger and much more readily enforceable enforced. I have no idea what the details of that particular situation,but I believe your family obviously had significant tangible assets in Colombia, am I correct? Of course anyone with tangible assets , like a house, business, salary, car, bank account? All of which can be"embargoed", and people with these type of assets in Colombia always has the risk legally of someone launching some type of greivance against them. And the "complainee" did this all on their lonesome without any legal help? And if the complainee had a lawyer, how much was the lawyers "take" (My girl friend is a lawyer and defends these cases where poor people are getting ripped off.She has a good heart and often does it for free, but normal lawyers fees are at least 20%). And how much of his or her take actually went to the Judge? And how long did the court process take? Sure , cases like this, and that of "Whodat" are common, but for everyone of them, there are 10 other cases of the employer actually "abusing" the employees and getting away with it. My GFs son for instance, works part time as a cook , 8 hours a week on weekends, and they pay him 24,000 COP ,plus tips, and he gets no transportation allowance. He is happy to have the work while he is studying. I have talked to dozens of women who work in stores, cafes, restaurants, and they get the full minimum wage, but are not limited to 160 hours a week. End up working 180 or 200 without pay. How could this be legal? Same with many guys working construction. What about University students and thier "Practicum" who work for nothing (Granted, this may not be illegal) I know quite a few girls who work at the Spanish owned Call Centres in Manizales. The girls dont get paid the transportation allowance, becaus they are picked up by a Company bus. Is this legal? What about women that are forced to sleep with the boss to get a job or retain thier job: Is this legal? How come these slimy low-life bastards keep doing it? They have a long way to go with workers rights in Colombia. complainee? that one made me chuckle. you are the guy from canada, right? the fascists south of you call it the plaintiff. "What about women that are forced to sleep with the boss to get a job or retain thier job: Is this legal? How come these slimy low-life bastards keep doing it? " - this happens all over the world and does not discriminate based on class, color, creed or where you live.
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Post by elexpatriado on Apr 28, 2016 19:41:37 GMT -5
Complaine, plaintiff whatever, I am an engineer..er..ex.pizza hut manager.. not a lawyer
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Post by gallito on Apr 28, 2016 19:41:53 GMT -5
Canada,the much maligned other brother from the English mom
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Post by elexpatriado on Apr 28, 2016 19:44:37 GMT -5
Would any agreement that is contrary to the law be enforcable after the fact? I'm not too sure about that. contrary to what law? that is the thing. contracts mean shit in colombia. they are broken all the time with complete disregard. contract law in the 1st world is sacred. does it trump employment law(s)? here it seems as though the precedent has been set in favor of the worker. solution - either comply and pay into the scam pension system and be compliant with the 'law' or just use a different maid every 3-4 months. typical BS that creates a lose/lose situation for everybody involved. my lady should be able to waive her right for the worthless pension benefit in lieu of additional front end monies. if this is handled in a law office and she is represented by counsel, the contract law should trump the bogus employment law. if there is no additional benefit to the worker, then maybe the employment law should prevail. in the end, it should be the decision of the worker to decide. but, not in colombia...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 19:46:02 GMT -5
Complaine, plaintiff whatever, I am an engineer..er..ex.pizza hut manager.. not a lawyer i don't think you have to be a lawyer to know that one. i think i learned it by the 3rd episode of perry mason, but point taken.
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Post by elexpatriado on Apr 28, 2016 19:52:09 GMT -5
hmm.. we seem to be worried a lot about maids here.
So the maid who has been coming into my rental apartment and cleaning for 4 hours once a week for 18 months, and I have been paying 30,000 pesos each time (almost double the minimum wage) could find a lawyer, and because I have no tangible assets at all in Colombia, will go with her lawyer to the frozen tundra of Canada and recieve a court order in the Canadian court system to embargo my Pizza Hut salary for a net value of 1 million peseo ($400) Or maybe they will just get a court order to throw me in the carcel with the Narcos and Child molestors until I "Pay Up"
Maybe I should sign a contract and give her a 20% raise and call it "Pension". We can take itto the Notaria, both sign it and have it stamped and witnessed.
Jeez you guys spend a lot of time worry about real chickem sh1t garbage. LOL
You should relax and enjoy Colombia..
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Post by elexpatriado on Apr 28, 2016 19:54:06 GMT -5
Complaine, plaintiff whatever, I am an engineer..er..ex.pizza hut manager.. not a lawyer i don't think you have to be a lawyer to know that one. i think i learned it by the 3rd episode of perry mason, but point taken. I wasnt saying it necessarily in the legal sense..they are complaining and want money so they are a complainee, arent they? Okay maybe I am grasping at straws..its a new word I inveted for a person making grevience or complaint. Anyway, you know what I meant
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 20:01:26 GMT -5
i don't think you have to be a lawyer to know that one. i think i learned it by the 3rd episode of perry mason, but point taken. I wasnt saying it necessarily in the legal sense..they are complaining and want money so they are a complainee, arent they? you mean the complainER. the complainee would be you, the maid abuser. i think you got confused with complainant - aka plaintiff.
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Post by ozgringo on Apr 28, 2016 20:04:16 GMT -5
A very wise gringo told me when I first arrived...If you buy any property set up a company first then have the company purchase it and always hire Venezuelans to clean your house.
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Post by elexpatriado on Apr 28, 2016 20:06:41 GMT -5
I wasnt saying it necessarily in the legal sense..they are complaining and want money so they are a complainee, arent they? you mean the complainER. the complainee would be you, the maid abuser. i think you got confused with complainant - aka plaintiff. Maid abuser.. Ronnel and the like and 90 % of the expats would say I was over generous and spoiling her- and spoiling it for the other expats.
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Post by makopp5 on Apr 28, 2016 20:11:44 GMT -5
elexpatriado, in the case of a muchacha for 4 hours a week it might not be too difficult, but if she is coming 2 times a week, it can be complicated. She can go to the minaret de trabajo and the will help her. I think its ok for them, because lots of employees are abusing, but I think its changing.
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Post by elexpatriado on Apr 28, 2016 20:21:51 GMT -5
elexpatriado, in the case of a muchacha for 4 hours a week it might not be too difficult, but if she is coming 2 times a week, it can be complicated. She can go to the minaret de trabajo and the will help her. I think its ok for them, because lots of employees are abusing, but I think its changing. If I pay her what is legally required she will get a reduction in wages.... Dont think she will like that
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Post by gallito on Apr 28, 2016 20:27:22 GMT -5
The general consensus amongst Colombians is if you give a little more,they'll expect more...
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