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Post by bickmed on Jul 31, 2016 12:21:34 GMT -5
If a non-fiscal resident, however you own COLOMBIAN assets that surpass the limit, then you would have to file that in Colombia. Ie if you are a UK citizen, living in the UK, however own 3,000,000,000 pesos worth of property in Colombia - a declaration would need to be made on the Colombian portion.
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Post by saltador on Jul 31, 2016 20:43:57 GMT -5
If you also stay in Colombia more than 183 days in any 365 day period. Just owning the property would not trigger the filing requirement.
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Post by bickmed on Aug 1, 2016 4:33:45 GMT -5
Saltador - are you sure of that and do you have a link. I hope you are right, however I have had two different versions from accountants - 1, that regardless, you have to file if over the material value designated by DIAN for Colombian assets, and the other that,as you say, if you are out of country more than 183 days then you don't.
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Post by saltador on Aug 1, 2016 7:57:14 GMT -5
bickmed-I'm not sure, because this is Colombia we're talking about, and opinions vary from lawyer to lawyer and accountant to accountant. Makes it hard to form a concrete opinion on anything legal here. But if you read my post a few posts back, you'll see this link: tudeclaracion.com/obligados-a-presentar-declaracion-de-renta-2016/ I went there, registered with the site, then logged on. They have a live chat feature. I asked during the chat if I had to declare, noting that I had an apartment in Colombia and a cedula, but stayed out of Colombia more than 183 days a year. She told me I did not have to declare. She did not ask me how much the apartment was worth. Also, look here at this site, it really lays it all out, and in English to boot: www.financecolombia.com/international-tax-lawyer-adrian-rodriguez-answers-critical-questions-on-colombias-tax-law/Note that there is a difference between Colombian nationals and aliens.
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Post by bickmed on Aug 1, 2016 8:28:45 GMT -5
Thanks Saltador. I have also done the same with tudeclaration and got the same answer as you, however then I visited a tax accountant who said I did have to make a declaration de renta for property over 127 Million, because of the below.
God Colombia is confusing.
Good to hear from you again, when we spoke, you said that you understand the article 10 of the TAX STATUTE(to be consider resident fiscal), and your not a resident fiscal, but you have to first read the article 9, article 9 of TAX STATUTE says: "Art. 9. Impuesto de las personas naturales, residentes y no residentes.
Las personas naturales, nacionales o extranjeras, residentes en el país y las sucesiones ilíquidas de causantes con residencia en el país en el momento de su muerte, están sujetas al impuesto sobre la renta y complementarios en lo concerniente a sus rentas y ganancias ocasionales, tanto de fuente nacional como de fuente extranjera, *y a su patrimonio poseído dentro y fuera del país.
Las personas naturales, nacionales o extranjeras, que no tengan residencia en el país y las sucesiones ilíquidas de causantes sin residencia en el país en el momento de su muerte, sólo están sujetas al impuesto sobre la renta y complementarios respecto a sus rentas y ganancias ocasionales de fuente nacional y respecto de su patrimonio poseído en el país." * - Derogado Dcto 1321 1989, Art 1 y 2.
Now, if your a foreign(Extranjero) you only have to declare your patrimony that you have in the country, If this one is over 127 M(that you said you own).
This is why I told you, you have to declare,
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Post by saltador on Aug 1, 2016 8:48:35 GMT -5
bickmed- I just found this on another site that gives me a little more confidence, this is translated into English by google: "Resident in Colombia individuals pay tax on global income, ie world income. Non-resident natural persons are taxed only on income from national sources. The mere possession of goods in Colombia by non-resident or domiciled, does not entail the obligation to declare." forvm.com.co/residentes-residentes-declaracin-de-renta/
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Post by expat15 on Aug 5, 2016 4:55:35 GMT -5
Any information relating to Formulario 160. The deadline for filing is October 2016 and the penalty is huge. The filing must be completed online. Dian states you must complete an introductory class on the process before filing. Unfortunately all classes are full. Dian did provide a phone number in Medellin 487-8200 for assistance, but it's "Out of Order".
Any suggestions?
Penalty for failure to file: Si, de conformidad con lo señalado en el Artículo 2 de la Resolución número 0096 del 14 de septiembre de 2015, la sanción aplicable en caso de no presentación o presentación extemporánea de la Declaración Anual de Activos en el Exterior, es la dispuesta en el artículo 651 del Estatuto Tributario, relativa al no envío de información. La DIAN le recomienda declarar todos los activos en el exterior, ya que de lo contrario se expone a sanciones que fluctúan entre 10 UVT ($283.000), sanción mínima (Art 639 del ET) y 15.000 UVT ($424 millones), por no enviar información (Art 651 del ET).
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Post by expat15 on Aug 5, 2016 6:14:30 GMT -5
Further information from the Director of DIAN. May 2016 "DIAN 200% Penalty": Santiago Rojas, director de la Dian. www.elheraldo.co/economia/dian-fija-plazo-para-la-declaracion-de-activos-en-el-exterior-255434The number provided by DIAN in Medellin is apparently a Bogota number 0571 487-8200. Perhaps someone in Bogota could call for further information. The Step by Step process for filing formulario 160: chrome-extension://oemmndcbldboiebfnladdacbdfmadadm/http://www.dian.gov.co/descargas/EscritosComunicados/2015/Paso_a_paso1.pdf
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Post by saltador on Aug 5, 2016 10:47:27 GMT -5
expat15, When i first read your posts, I had no idea what Formulario 160 was. So, I did a search. Here is what I found, in the original spanish, and then translated: ¿Quiénes deben declarar?
Las personas jurídicas, sociedades o entidades consideradas como nacionales para efectos tributarios, que poseían activos en el exterior a 1 de enero de 2016 deberán presentar la declaración anual de activos en el exterior. Cuando el valor patrimonial del activo es superior a $106’515.740, deberá declararse de manera discriminada con el valor, la jurisdicción donde está ubicado y su naturaleza. Quienes tengan activos con valor igual o inferior a $106.515.740, deberán declararlos de manera agregada por su valor patrimonial de acuerdo con la jurisdicción donde estén ubicados.
Who should declare?
Legal persons , companies or entities considered nationals for tax purposes , which had assets abroad to January 1, 2016 must submit the annual declaration of assets abroad . When the asset value of the asset exceeds $ 106'515.740 , it must be declared in the value discriminately , the jurisdiction where it is located and its nature. Those with assets exceeding $ 106,515,740 value , shall be processed in aggregate for its equity in accordance with the jurisdiction where they are located.
That brings this to a whole new level. Remember, if you stay in Colombia for more than 183 days in a one year period, you are considered a Colombian national for tax purposes, and according to this, you would be required to declare your assets abroad if you have more than around 35 thousand dollars worth. How many people do you know that this applies to? I know a bunch who are not declaring but should. This makes me more resolute to limit my time in Colombia to less than 6 months a year. Upon reading it again, it looks like you would have to declare regardless if you met the threshold of 35,000. Wow.
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Post by azarat on Aug 5, 2016 10:49:42 GMT -5
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azarat
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Post by azarat on Aug 5, 2016 10:53:48 GMT -5
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Post by expat15 on Aug 5, 2016 15:54:26 GMT -5
expat15, When i first read your posts, I had no idea what Formulario 160 was. So, I did a search. Here is what I found, in the original spanish, and then translated: ¿Quiénes deben declarar? Las personas jurídicas, sociedades o entidades consideradas como nacionales para efectos tributarios, que poseían activos en el exterior a 1 de enero de 2016 deberán presentar la declaración anual de activos en el exterior. Cuando el valor patrimonial del activo es superior a $106’515.740, deberá declararse de manera discriminada con el valor, la jurisdicción donde está ubicado y su naturaleza. Quienes tengan activos con valor igual o inferior a $106.515.740, deberán declararlos de manera agregada por su valor patrimonial de acuerdo con la jurisdicción donde estén ubicados. Who should declare? Legal persons , companies or entities considered nationals for tax purposes , which had assets abroad to January 1, 2016 must submit the annual declaration of assets abroad . When the asset value of the asset exceeds $ 106'515.740 , it must be declared in the value discriminately , the jurisdiction where it is located and its nature. Those with assets exceeding $ 106,515,740 value , shall be processed in aggregate for its equity in accordance with the jurisdiction where they are located. That brings this to a whole new level. Remember, if you stay in Colombia for more than 183 days in a one year period, you are considered a Colombian national for tax purposes, and according to this, you would be required to declare your assets abroad if you have more than around 35 thousand dollars worth. How many people do you know that this applies to? I know a bunch who are not declaring but should. This makes me more resolute to limit my time in Colombia to less than 6 months a year. Upon reading it again, it looks like you would have to declare regardless if you met the threshold of 35,000. Wow. As I read it: Your correct everyone must file/declare foreign assets (homes,cash etc) regardless of the amount on Formulario 160 if they spend 183 days in Colombia. DIAN isn't making it easy, but I have an appointment Monday to be finger printed and registered and obtain my "Mecanismo Digital". This will allow me to file online at the DIAN Web-Site. You can call Bogota on your cell phone at 031-487-8200 for a Medellin appointment or 0571-487-8200.
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Post by sedelen on Aug 5, 2016 19:03:29 GMT -5
expat15, When i first read your posts, I had no idea what Formulario 160 was. So, I did a search. Here is what I found, in the original spanish, and then translated: ¿Quiénes deben declarar? Las personas jurídicas, sociedades o entidades consideradas como nacionales para efectos tributarios, que poseían activos en el exterior a 1 de enero de 2016 deberán presentar la declaración anual de activos en el exterior. Cuando el valor patrimonial del activo es superior a $106’515.740, deberá declararse de manera discriminada con el valor, la jurisdicción donde está ubicado y su naturaleza. Quienes tengan activos con valor igual o inferior a $106.515.740, deberán declararlos de manera agregada por su valor patrimonial de acuerdo con la jurisdicción donde estén ubicados. Who should declare? Legal persons , companies or entities considered nationals for tax purposes , which had assets abroad to January 1, 2016 must submit the annual declaration of assets abroad . When the asset value of the asset exceeds $ 106'515.740 , it must be declared in the value discriminately , the jurisdiction where it is located and its nature. Those with assets exceeding $ 106,515,740 value , shall be processed in aggregate for its equity in accordance with the jurisdiction where they are located. That brings this to a whole new level. Remember, if you stay in Colombia for more than 183 days in a one year period, you are considered a Colombian national for tax purposes, and according to this, you would be required to declare your assets abroad if you have more than around 35 thousand dollars worth. How many people do you know that this applies to? I know a bunch who are not declaring but should. This makes me more resolute to limit my time in Colombia to less than 6 months a year. Upon reading it again, it looks like you would have to declare regardless if you met the threshold of 35,000. Wow. As I read it: Your correct everyone must file/declare foreign assets (homes,cash etc) regardless of the amount on Formulario 160 if they spend 183 days in Colombia. DIAN isn't making it easy, but I have an appointment Monday to be finger printed and registered and obtain my "Mecanismo Digital". This will allow me to file online at the DIAN Web-Site. You can call Bogota on your cell phone at 031-487-8200 for a Medellin appointment or 0571-487-8200. "Assets" points to a broad list of potential things. Bank accounts, savings and checking, C/D's, 401K's, Traditional and Roth IRA's, Savings Bonds, Real Estate holdings, Stocks, Bonds, Mutual Funds, Brokerage accounts, can even go so far as the value of surrendered life insurance policies. Something tells me you can dig a really deep hole for yourself here if you're not careful here, 35K isn't much to work around, not knowing what you're liable for, or what to pay could keep you up at nights. For those that do have some assets, staying in this country only 6 months out of the year might be the wisest decision, after all, it may not be financially speaking the best thing to do to have to pay for having assets especially if they're not performing, appreciating anyway. Some of these assets have already been taxed in the States, or income taxes deferred, like IRA's and 401K's, savings bonds, why would anyone want to have them taxed again? The problem here is, it's a great "unknown" because we don't know the laws here, and it's scary if we think our assets could be taxed at whatever percentage they decide we should pay for the luxury of just having them, for every year we're here. That could sure put a damper on the over all value, and create depreciation in the value of our holdings, nothing like having a depreciating net worth when you're in you're retirement years when you need to be able to at least try to keep what you've earned. I think in time I will learn what I'm liable for and what not, and if I don't like what I hear, I'll seriously consider returning to the States. Until that time, I will party on!
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Post by expat15 on Aug 8, 2016 8:51:30 GMT -5
The Colombian Wealth Tax New wealth tax The tax reform creates a new wealth tax. Under general terms, all individuals and legal entities in Colombia, who are deemed income taxpayers, including nonresidents (not expressly excluded by the law to pay this tax) are subject to this tax, provided their tax net equity (gross assets minus debts) as of 1 January 2015, is greater than COP 1,000,000,000 (approx. USD 388,800). In addition, unliquidated inheritances also are subject to this tax if the tax net equity threshold is met. In accordance with the wording of the rule, those that do not meet the tax net equity threshold as of 1 January 2015, or are not considered income taxpayers, are not subject to the tax for 2015, 2016, and 2017 for corporations. Individuals also will not be subject to the tax for an additional year (2018). Portfolio foreign capital Investors and entities under a liquidation process, forced administrative liquidation, mandatory liquidation or which had entered into a restructuring agreement or those under an insolvency regime are not subject to this new tax. www.ey.com/GL/en/Services/Tax/International-Tax/Alert--Colombia-enacts-tax-reform
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Post by livinginmedellin on Aug 8, 2016 9:11:40 GMT -5
No where in that "scare" post does it tell the entire story. It doesn't mention that you can subtract income taxes paid in another country from income taxes due in Colombia. It also doesn't mention that Colombia has a number of deductions including the ability to exempt up to 25% of a salary from income taxes. The most valuable thing in that post is " Note: Obviously, you need to do your own due diligence, and what I have said above is not to be taken as legal or professional advice of any kind. Talk to your lawyer or accountant." The bottom line is don't believe what is posted on someone's blog when he doesn't even live in Colombia and has never filed income taxes even once in Colombia so has no experience. Talk to a tax professional to understand the impact of income taxes in Colombia for your personal situation. My Colombian accountant has told me that most of her expat clients pay little or no income taxes in Colombia. You also need to look at more than income taxes and should consider the entire tax situation in Colombia - for example, Colombia has very low property taxes that can be as low as 0.3% and the capital gains tax in Colombia is 10%. Also should consider that the cost of living in Colombia is relatively low... and the cost of property in some cities in Colombia like Medellín, Pereira, Cali, etc is pretty low.
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Post by charlie640 on Aug 10, 2016 13:32:22 GMT -5
YES... you can deduct your income taxes paid in the USA against taxes due in COL, so for most the taxes won't much at all.
HOWEVER, from what I have been told NO such deductions can be made toward the WEALTH TAX. The WEALTH TAX is a totally separate from your income tax filings and the WEALTH TAX is VERY SCARY !!!! and is the STUPIDEST , ANTI-GROWTH , ANTI -INVESTMENT thing they could have done.
I have no problem paying tax on $$$ derived from my activities in COLOMBIA but the COL GOV'T can screw themselves if they think they will be taxing my overseas assets. I will not be retiring or spending more than 183 days in COL AND not investing any more $$, and that is a big loss for COL I can assure you. You would think that Maduro was running the country!! How pitiful !!
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Post by sedelen on Aug 10, 2016 15:48:55 GMT -5
YES... you can deduct your income taxes paid in the USA against taxes due in COL, so for most the taxes won't much at all. HOWEVER, from what I have been told NO such deductions can be made toward the WEALTH TAX. The WEALTH TAX is a totally separate from your income tax filings and the WEALTH TAX is VERY SCARY !!!! and is the STUPIDEST , ANTI-GROWTH , ANTI -INVESTMENT thing they could have done. I have no problem paying tax on $$$ derived from my activities in COLOMBIA but the COL GOV'T can screw themselves if they think they will be taxing my overseas assets. I will not be retiring or spending more than 183 days in COL AND not investing any more $$, and that is a big loss for COL I can assure you. You would think that Maduro was running the country!! How pitiful !! It's outrageous to me also! Everyone wants to put their hands in your pocket! I try to be somewhat generous down here, so I spend a little money here, if I am expected to pay what I would think would be an unreasonable amount on taxes, regardless of which category they fit in, I'll just pack up and head home, and all my spending down here will be no longer.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2016 19:06:37 GMT -5
Thanks Saltador. I have also done the same with tudeclaration and got the same answer as you, however then I visited a tax accountant who said I did have to make a declaration de renta for property over 127 Million, because of the below. God Colombia is confusing. Good to hear from you again, when we spoke, you said that you understand the article 10 of the TAX STATUTE(to be consider resident fiscal), and your not a resident fiscal, but you have to first read the article 9, article 9 of TAX STATUTE says: "Art. 9. Impuesto de las personas naturales, residentes y no residentes. Las personas naturales, nacionales o extranjeras, residentes en el país y las sucesiones ilíquidas de causantes con residencia en el país en el momento de su muerte, están sujetas al impuesto sobre la renta y complementarios en lo concerniente a sus rentas y ganancias ocasionales, tanto de fuente nacional como de fuente extranjera, *y a su patrimonio poseído dentro y fuera del país. Las personas naturales, nacionales o extranjeras, que no tengan residencia en el país y las sucesiones ilíquidas de causantes sin residencia en el país en el momento de su muerte, sólo están sujetas al impuesto sobre la renta y complementarios respecto a sus rentas y ganancias ocasionales de fuente nacional y respecto de su patrimonio poseído en el país." * - Derogado Dcto 1321 1989, Art 1 y 2. Now, if your a foreign(Extranjero) you only have to declare your patrimony that you have in the country, If this one is over 127 M(that you said you own). This is why I told you, you have to declare, Bickmed, thanks for the info. but did your accountant say you have to declare a property over! 127 million because it says in other posts that the limit is 106 million and something, which amounts to an estrato 2 home in most cities.
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Post by bickmed on Aug 11, 2016 0:15:59 GMT -5
Costenogringo - my 127 k is based on the DIAN advice, and tax accountants. See below for an English summary and it is not just property - it is your assets combined ie you can have a house for 100.000.000 and a 30.000.000 car which combined puts you over the limit: www.medellinlawyer.com/author/jaime2014/
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Post by dandl93 on Aug 11, 2016 6:36:38 GMT -5
CG 106 or 127 million cop it goes off of the price published at the notaria when you buy the property not what you paid.If a person buys a home in Colombia for 150 million it will get published for 30.If that person is married he is liable for 1/2 of the house and the car so 15 + 30.
The problem with Tax info on forums not one person is the same.
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Post by bickmed on Aug 11, 2016 8:58:21 GMT -5
Dandle a couple of questions if I may on your post:
1) why would a 150 M house be in the Notary for 30? Are you referring to the issue in Colombia where people declare a lesser value to save on property tax etc? In that case I can see it may be less, but 30 against 150 would be a big gamble (IMO).
2) Even though I am married, my apartment is in my name (and was bought well prior) - my understanding is that the person whose name it is against in the registry, is the one who has the full amount against their name for tax declaration de renta purposes (I am not referring to what would happen in a divorce). So, as the apartment is in my name officially, I have to declare full value personally. If I put my wifes name on the deed, then I would have to split it for a declaration de renta purpose.
3) I have now had an accountant tell me that the value DIAN values the house (for example) on its real (market) value, not listed registry value(I am still trying to get that confirmed and I want to see the writing). That one scares me, if it is true.
As an aside point, related to number one. If a foreigner is buying an apartment second hand, and they decide to go along with the seller and pay in two parts - the listed registry amount, and then the remainder for the ''actual'', you need to be very careful how you bring your money in and register it.
For the deed portion, that would be a form 4, for the remainder it would be form 5. Why? because DIAN are correlating form 4's to your registry price. So if you brought in 200,000 usd to buy a place on form 4, but only 90,000 usd is on the deed - then you could be in trouble for registering your money incorrectly. A law / tax firm in Medellin informed me they are representing clients who have been caught out by DIAN for this exact issue and are in danger of loosing their house.
Indeed, I have had a letter from the superintendenica in the past directing me to prove where I spent the funds on one of my form 4's. They were very strict, and it reminded me to never ever screw around with a Colombian Government agency, which is why I try to find out as much as possible about the tax requirements and obligations here and comply.
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Post by dandl93 on Aug 12, 2016 18:48:18 GMT -5
bickmed
1 not that big of a gamble
2 You are correct
3 It goes off of registry... Your paper trail is what it is I wont give any advice.
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Post by marazul on Aug 14, 2016 17:49:23 GMT -5
I read thru this again. Did anyone get an answer to the question if a non-resident has the same reporting requirement as a resident for the 127 M reporting requirement?
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Post by bickmed on Aug 14, 2016 23:01:27 GMT -5
Marazul - no, not yet. I still have the two differing opinions from different tax agents. The last tax agent I went to stated no, however I requested that he contact DIAN for their advice which he is doing. Once I get that, I will post the answer.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2016 12:09:36 GMT -5
I read thru this again. Did anyone get an answer to the question if a non-resident has the same reporting requirement as a resident for the 127 M reporting requirement?
I just filed. Based upon my experience, and according to what my accountant advises, non-residents (meaning people who live in country less than 183 days) do not have to file. For example, I have an American ex-pat friend, who does not meet the 183-day rule, so he is not considered a resident for taxation purposes. He was advised not to file. For those individuals who are residents or Citizens, they must file only if their personal wealth or personal income exceed the reporting thresholds. If this is confusing for you, it's probably best you consult with an accountant.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2016 14:58:06 GMT -5
This has been blown all out of proportion--183 rule or not
Foreign Ex-pats in Colombia are 1 ant in an ant hill--
These Colombian regulations are primarily for the thousands and thousands of ex-pat Colombians, living outside Colombia--most of them living in the the states--and not reporting anything to Colombia--though still carrying their Colombian passports-- No matter what regulations the Govt. of Colombia puts in place--the country is a cash society in daily transactions--and cash transactions in property--legal and illegal--and will remain so--This is quite opposite of IRS property transactions of monetary record in the states--which the Colombian govt can much easily go after---
Whenever one lives--one is going to pay taxes--whether in the states or Colombia or elsewhere--no big deal
FACTA is immaterial to probably 95% of ex-pats living in Colombia--
If one files a 1040 U.S tax return--one is required to report a Colombian bank account / or elsewhere on schedule B if in their name--
I doubt most ex-pats here spend 48,000 USD per year here in living expenses--equal to 12,000,000 pesos per month at today's exchange rate--(if one takes more than 48,000 USD equivalent out of ATM's here--it is reported to the Colombia tax entity
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Post by livinginmedellin on Aug 15, 2016 16:16:20 GMT -5
This has been blown all out of proportion--183 rule or not Foreign Ex-pats in Colombia are 1 ant in an ant hill-- These Colombian regulations are primarily for the thousands and thousands of ex-pat Colombians, living outside Colombia--most of them living in the the states--and not reporting anything to Colombia--though still carrying their Colombian passports-- No matter what regulations the Govt. of Colombia puts in place--the country is a cash society in daily transactions--and cash transactions in property--legal and illegal--and will remain so--This is quite opposite of IRS property transactions of monetary record in the states--which the Colombian govt can much easily go after--- Whenever one lives--one is going to pay taxes--whether in the states or Colombia or elsewhere--no big deal FACTA is immaterial to probably 95% of ex-pats living in Colombia-- If one files a 1040 U.S tax return--one is required to report a Colombian bank account / or elsewhere on schedule B if in their name-- I doubt most ex-pats here spend 48,000 USD per year here in living expenses--equal to 12,000,000 pesos per month at today's exchange rate--(if one takes more than 48,000 USD equivalent out of ATM's here--it is reported to the Colombia tax entity You only have to file Schedule B if you have over $1,500 in taxable interest or ordinary dividends. If you are under that number you still have to report interest earned in Colombia on line 8a of Form 1040 but there is no need to report Colombian bank account if the total is under $10,000. A bigger reporting requirement than FACTA for expats living in Colombia is a FBAR (Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts) report that must be filed in the US if the aggregate of your foreign accounts exceeds only $10,000 at any time during the year - www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/report-of-foreign-bank-and-financial-accounts-fbar. That's a pretty low threshold. FACTA has a high reporting threshold of $200,000 in foreign financial assets if you are single and living abroad or $400,000 if filing married and living abroad. So likely impacts few expats - www.irs.gov/businesses/corporations/summary-of-fatca-reporting-for-u-s-taxpayers.
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Post by saltador on Aug 15, 2016 16:32:45 GMT -5
This has been blown all out of proportion--183 rule or not Foreign Ex-pats in Colombia are 1 ant in an ant hill-- These Colombian regulations are primarily for the thousands and thousands of ex-pat Colombians, living outside Colombia--most of them living in the the states--and not reporting anything to Colombia--though still carrying their Colombian passports-- No matter what regulations the Govt. of Colombia puts in place--the country is a cash society in daily transactions--and cash transactions in property--legal and illegal--and will remain so--This is quite opposite of IRS property transactions of monetary record in the states--which the Colombian govt can much easily go after--- Whenever one lives--one is going to pay taxes--whether in the states or Colombia or elsewhere--no big deal FACTA is immaterial to probably 95% of ex-pats living in Colombia-- If one files a 1040 U.S tax return--one is required to report a Colombian bank account / or elsewhere on schedule B if in their name-- I doubt most ex-pats here spend 48,000 USD per year here in living expenses--equal to 12,000,000 pesos per month at today's exchange rate--(if one takes more than 48,000 USD equivalent out of ATM's here--it is reported to the Colombia tax entity Waterloo, This is a very complicated topic that a lot of ex-pats need guidance on, that's why there is so much discussion. And it's hard to get a straight answer you can have confidence in when every lawyer or accountant in Colombia gives you a different answer. I don't know if you were around these Colombia message boards when a guy I'll call Gloid was posting, but he got his ass in a bind with DIAN and had to pay a big fine, simply because he didn't "declare". He didn't owe any taxes. But he didn't fill out his red-tape paperwork and got nailed for it. DIAN said ignorance of the law was no excuse. That's where I see most people possibly running into problems, by being in Colombia more than 6 months per year, and not "declaring". I know several ex-pats that fall into this category, they say "Oh, that doesn't apply to me, I'm a U.S. citizen" or "I pay taxes in the US" or "I don't have any Colombian income" or "The majority of my assets are in the US" or "I've been here x number of years, I've never had to file anything" or whatever else they think exempts them. They need to know: If you are in Colombia more than 183 days per year, you need to fill out your paperwork and declare. PERIOD. Whether or not they owe taxes can then be determined.
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Post by livinginmedellin on Aug 15, 2016 17:17:18 GMT -5
This has been blown all out of proportion--183 rule or not Foreign Ex-pats in Colombia are 1 ant in an ant hill-- These Colombian regulations are primarily for the thousands and thousands of ex-pat Colombians, living outside Colombia--most of them living in the the states--and not reporting anything to Colombia--though still carrying their Colombian passports-- No matter what regulations the Govt. of Colombia puts in place--the country is a cash society in daily transactions--and cash transactions in property--legal and illegal--and will remain so--This is quite opposite of IRS property transactions of monetary record in the states--which the Colombian govt can much easily go after--- Whenever one lives--one is going to pay taxes--whether in the states or Colombia or elsewhere--no big deal FACTA is immaterial to probably 95% of ex-pats living in Colombia-- If one files a 1040 U.S tax return--one is required to report a Colombian bank account / or elsewhere on schedule B if in their name-- I doubt most ex-pats here spend 48,000 USD per year here in living expenses--equal to 12,000,000 pesos per month at today's exchange rate--(if one takes more than 48,000 USD equivalent out of ATM's here--it is reported to the Colombia tax entity Waterloo, This is a very complicated topic that a lot of ex-pats need guidance on, that's why there is so much discussion. And it's hard to get a straight answer you can have confidence in when every lawyer or accountant in Colombia gives you a different answer. I don't know if you were around these Colombia message boards when a guy I'll call Gloid was posting, but he got his ass in a bind with DIAN and had to pay a big fine, simply because he didn't "declare". He didn't owe any taxes. But he didn't fill out his red-tape paperwork and got nailed for it. DIAN said ignorance of the law was no excuse. That's where I see most people possibly running into problems, by being in Colombia more than 6 months per year, and not "declaring". I know several ex-pats that fall into this category, they say "Oh, that doesn't apply to me, I'm a U.S. citizen" or "I pay taxes in the US" or "I don't have any Colombian income" or "The majority of my assets are in the US" or "I've been here x number of years, I've never had to file anything" or whatever else they think exempts them. They need to know: If you are in Colombia more than 183 days per year, you need to fill out your paperwork and declare. PERIOD. Whether or not they owe taxes can then be determined. I agree that many expats need guidance. I have heard several expats quote the out-of-date "five year rule" and that they don't have to file since they have been here less than 5 years. It appears that many expats don't know this changed back in 2013. I also have heard "I don't have any Colombian income" and "I'm a U.S. citizen". There seems to be many that think they are exempt. Bottom line is that 39,591,000 pesos in worldwide income ($12,751 USD at the official exchange rate at end of 2015) is a definite requirement for filing taxes in Colombia. which is a pretty low income threshold. I doubt there are very many expats living in Colombia with income lower than that, which means most expat tax residents in Colombia should have to file taxes in Colombia - whether or not they owe taxes. I have filed income taxes 3 years in a row in Colombia but only had to pay income taxes this year for 2015.
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Post by bickmed on Aug 15, 2016 23:36:01 GMT -5
I read thru this again. Did anyone get an answer to the question if a non-resident has the same reporting requirement as a resident for the 127 M reporting requirement?
I just filed. Based upon my experience, and according to what my accountant advises, non-residents (meaning people who live in country less than 183 days) do not have to file. For example, I have an American ex-pat friend, who does not meet the 183-day rule, so he is not considered a resident for taxation purposes. He was advised not to file. For those individuals who are residents or Citizens, they must file only if their personal wealth or personal income exceed the reporting thresholds. If this is confusing for you, it's probably best you consult with an accountant.
The problem is Colombian accountants generally have no idea. The amount I have had to school them on the laws dumfounds me - even when they are meant to be accountants who are conversant with the requirements for expats. Every single one I have met with states that because I have a Colombian wife and child I am a tax resident regardless, even if outside the country for more than 183 days. I then have to show the paragraph 3 which clearly states ''ser nacional'' with those requirements below. They then agree that I am not. They should know that straight up.
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